Valid intuition vs. negative imaginings

[highlander]

As an INTJ over the years, I have found that I rely on my intuition (Ni) enormously.These perceptions are incredibly important in informing which way to go. On the other hand, I have found that I can also over-interpret reactions from others, have an overly active imagination, project my negative qualities on others, even at times bordering on slightly paranoid thinking. As I learned about personality theory, I discovered this destructive side of the coin or pattern and made a decision to simply trust people. To be the first one to trust. It's not always easy, but I consciously attempt to push down negative thoughts of others and encourage the positive ones. It has served me well over the years.

The problem is this, sometimes those negative intuitions turn out to be true. There was a person not so long ago - I pretty much immediately got a bad vibe. Things didn't seem right. I asked a couple of others and they thought the person was odd but harmless. The feeling didn't go way - kept nagging in my mind. Turns out the person was a bad egg - destructive not only to their own life but also to others. I could have done more earlier but did not have sufficient facts to support my judgement.

A quote from "Type Talk at Work", "Defensiveness, coupled with TJ self confidence can lead an INTJ to assume that others are not only untrustworthy but indeed out to get them. Such misplaced projection on the part of the INTJ can be very undermining to others and can leave staff or colleagues permanently wounded. Even then the INTJ can be blind to their own destructiveness. Their tendency is to blame others for these circumstances."

The first time I read this and thought about it, I realized that holy crap - I was doing it at work with an important subordinate. It was not good. Damage was done but I could attempt to repair it which took a few years.

My question is how do you discern the good intuitions from bad? I think sometimes it is not so easy.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I think it is easier to discern whether your intuition is good or bad when you speak in an extraverted sense so I'll start there, because it isn't relied upon the inner self, but the internal logic if the internal logic doesn't make sense then the intuition is probably wrong, too. So you need to integrate your extraverted judgement into the mix, use your Te to discern your insight, without that I think introverted intuition alone can be very dangerous. Intuition should pose the question, but it can't answer it so I think it's all based on your extraverted thinking to decide whether it's right or not. You can only work with what you see and sometimes your intuition may sense it, but you may disregard a good bunch because of the lack of evidence.

 

[Mal12345]

As an INTJ over the years, I have found that I rely on my intuition (Ni) enormously.These perceptions are incredibly important in informing which way to go. On the other hand, I have found that I can also over-interpret reactions from others, have an overly active imagination, project my negative qualities on others, even at times bordering on slightly paranoid thinking. As I learned about personality theory, I discovered this destructive side of the coin or pattern and made a decision to simply trust people. To be the first one to trust. It's not always easy, but I consciously attempt to push down negative thoughts of others and encourage the positive ones. It has served me well over the years.

The problem is this, sometimes those negative intuitions turn out to be true. There was a person not so long ago - I pretty much immediately got a bad vibe. Things didn't seem right. I asked a couple of others and they thought the person was odd but harmless. The feeling didn't go way - kept nagging in my mind. Turns out the person was a bad egg - destructive not only to their own life but also to others. I could have done more earlier but did not have sufficient facts to support my judgement.

A quote from "Type Talk at Work", "Defensiveness, coupled with TJ self confidence can lead an INTJ to assume that others are not only untrustworthy but indeed out to get them. Such misplaced projection on the part of the INTJ can be very undermining to others and can leave staff or colleagues permanently wounded. Even then the INTJ can be blind to their own destructiveness. Their tendency is to blame others for these circumstances."

The first time I read this and thought about it, I realized that holy crap - I was doing it at work with an important subordinate. It was not good. Damage was done but I could attempt to repair it which took a few years.

My question is how do you discern the good intuitions from bad? I think sometimes it is not so easy.

I don't see any instance of projection in the example you gave. Projection is rather indirect, but not an obscure feeling. If someone is a liar, he thinks others are liars; if he cheats on his wife, he becomes jealous of her alleged cheating. What you describe as a kind of vibe is not projection and I would not call it pathological. But once you've stopped trusting your instincts it will be hard to regain that trust in yourself. In the example you gave, perhaps you should have not rationalized your intuition as projection but seen it as something else, perhaps even as a true gut instinct.

 

[ThatGirl]

I used to rely heavily on my intuition, until an incidence happened that caused me to call all my thoughts into question. Then I developed the habit of checking all my perspectives before trusting my own judgment. Sucked.

I am just now learning to trust my intuition again, and I understand what you are saying. Since I am a user, and a checker, I have some ideas about it.

I think it is easy to associate a strong feeling to the person directly involved. For instance when my sis was dating a guy I got creepy vibes from I refused to drop the subject until they broke up. Was the guy a complete asshole? Who knows? Was I right in retrospect to not want them to be together? Absolutley.

The weird thing about intuition is that questioning it causes it to sort of become non existent as it gets filtered through other processing functions. If you do that too much it kind of loses its value.

If you want an exercise at being more open minded, try to depersonalize the reaction. It is not the person. It is the person, at this time, in this situation, under these conditions.

As far as longer lasting intuitions, idk, not my area of expertise.

 

[OrangeAppled]

My INFJ bf can get really paranoid sometimes, convinced other people are trying to sabotage him for no reason (he admits there is no logical reason). He's always telling me to just trust his hunches, but it's hard for me being a Ne type to not see a gazillion alternate possibilities, many which make more sense. Recently, there was a situation he was soooo sure certain things were true (one of these thing being a friend lying to him), and I suggested alternate possibilities (it was a miscommunication, not a lie), and guess who was right on every count? Meeee! Sometimes, to me, it seems like he has tunnel vision, and I know to him, it seems like I am grasping at straws when I suggest other possible scenarios. It's simply more in my nature to give the benefit of the doubt, and more in his to jump to negative conclusions. I guess that can make me a bit naive & him paranoid.

I think in dealing with Ni-doms you do have to trust them to a point even when they can't give a rational explanation for a hunch, but you also have to teach them to trust you, that your perceptions are just as valid. I think it obviously helps when the aux function balances out Ni also....my bf usually sort of calms down about his paranoid suspicions when he begins to evaluate situations rationally (in his case, with Fe). Even if he doesn't totally drop the suspicions, they are sort of put aside in favor of more important issues at hand. For a Pi-dom, the aux Je function is what should help them weed out bogus perceptions in their own thinking.

 

[Thalassa]

Intuition that is valid feels "clear"...bullshit that is either paranoid or wishful thinking is tampered with by your internal will and personal feelings.

I know the difference deep down inside, like I know. That doesn't always mean I'm able to seperate my internal will or personal feelings, though, which sucks.

You can also make intuitive connections based upon information that really is there, but you're missing it because you aren't a sensor, and in that case your intuitions are simply taking in information that more detail people oriented people would be able to describe (well I don't like that guy because of this, this, and this) while the intuitive is standing over there just rambling about his "creepy vibe."

 

[Totenkindly]

Usually if my intuition goes bad, it involves paranoia that someone doesn't like me or that people are watching me and I'm going to get fired for doing something wrong, etc... basically that I'm being judged and am in danger of being blindsided.

I figured out through experience that my bad intuition was actually bad sometimes. (Sometimes, actually, it wasn't -- the danger ended up manifesting itself -- but other times I was just far afield from the truth.)

Typically what happens is that the intuition feeds my thinking process, and my thinking process draws conclusions that sometimes were far too negative. My thinking was good; my input was bad. Therefore I used my thinking to reevaluate the input, remind myself of past times where I was wrong, and to really look at ALL the possibilities rather than just the ones in alignment with my own hidden fears of inadequacy or being victimized in some way. I also try to collect actual hard data on the potential danger, rather than reacting to the possibility, to see if there is any meat to it.

I think I test my intuition enough at this point that I often end up affirming it rather than denying it at this point.

I do also think that dealing with faulty intuition depends on its position within the psyche. I've had to deal with a lot of people who have N as their inferior and it looks different from those with it in teritiary, etc., and the difference mix of traits and its relation to them determines what amount of influence it has and what can be brought in to balance it.

 

[INTPness]

I can relate quite a bit to the OP, even though I'm more familiar with Ne than Ni. My intuition usually gives me about 50% of the picture. The other 50% just has to be filled in through experience and, in large part, through sensing. Interacting, laughing, talking, experiencing, etc. Sometimes people surprise you for the good and sometimes they surprise you for the not so good.

I think a lot of it has to do with watching people over time. You use the example of co-workers and this is the setting where I'm thinking about it as well. Sometimes you get a strange read on someone, but over 6 months time they prove to be a great asset in the work place. Over time they show themselves competent or valuable to the organization (and not a "bad seed", as you say). Sometimes you get a "good read" and it doesn't end up holding true over time. They prove to be more problematic than anything else.

I think there was a thread on here somewhere about job interviews. I think someone said that a lot of times when they hired people who had great interviews (and they got good reads on), the employee actually ended up being the opposite. And sometimes when they hired someone who interviewed badly (a not so good read), sometimes they actually ended up proving that hunch to be wrong. I've talked to people IRL who do interviewing and they've said similar things: Your "read" only goes so far. There is no substitute for getting them into the position, letting them get settled, and seeing what transpires over 6 months, 1 year, etc.

 

[mochajava]

I like INTPness' description of job interviews as predictors. It's so right, you can't know until you KNOW, but sometimes you have to act with incomplete information. I find that my biggest struggle isn't the quality of the information from my intuition, but whether or not I listen to it. That being said, maybe when I grow to the point of being aware of it 100% of the time, I'll realize that not all of the information is good. Anyway - my point is that sometimes it is the best information available to you, whether or not it's right 100% of the time is besides the point.

 

[rav3n]

Are you sure it was Ni and not Fi or even a combination of the two?

 

[entropie]

Think the problem in the op is no issue single to Ni user but more to all people. We all have issues to identify the people we can trust and who not and intuition really becomes more a game of lucky guess if you were right or wrong investing in trust.

When you get older it will be easier to understand people, cause patterns recur

 

[highlander]

Great comments. It's interesting that INTPs seem to deal with the same issue.

I simply don't know about this. What ThatGirl says is the way I feel. I rely on this intuition to a great extent.

Somewhere along the line, perhaps in my early 20s, I began to realize there were other perspectives that were superior to mine in some ways. It caused me to engage more in soliciting other's opinions or views though that was quite selective. Then, in my early 30s I came to understand that this negative intuition that Jennifer describes had a counterproductive influence in my life. I also learned that I needed to bring people along with me to get things done. I began to be much more participatory and consensus oriented in my decision making and leadership style. I learned to trust others more.

At the end, I wonder if I have gone too far in this journey. I've lost some kind of edge that the intuition gives me. I've become more balanced but not as differentiated.

 

[entropie]

Nah, stick with the balanced part, still some way to go

 

[ThatGirl]

From what I understand it is a catch 22. On the one hand the way to difuse doubt about intuition is to really know yourself. If you know how you will percieve, act, react, to certain stimuli and why, you can remove yourself from the equation.

For instance. Every time I encounter this, I percieve it as this, and react this way, because of this. Step back further and remove that element from the equation, you can gauge what I like to say, "whether this is mine or yours." Sometimes I realize that if I remove myself the situation really is harmless, this is mine then. If I remove that element, and the situtation progresses, this is yours.

The problem with this, is that we as people, are participants in our own lives. Sometimes that projection is necessary, specially if it is involving decisions that effect us. We can't just remove ourselves from the equation and go all rational, because we are the ones that have to live with the consequences.

In the end, the most important thing really is to trust yourself, account for the margin of error, and be ready to admit you were wrong, should that turn out to be the case.

You don't have to get it right every time, to be accurate most times.

Anyway that's what I eventually decided upon.

 

[mochajava]

In the end, the most important thing really is to trust yourself, account for the margin of error, and be ready to admit you were wrong, should that turn out to be the case.

You don't have to get it right every time, to be accurate most times.

I like this point. Gavin De Becker explores intuition as a way of preventing violence in his book called The Gift of Fear . I just started it, but thought in case anyone read it that it would be interesting to bring into this conversation. The idea is that De Becker posits trusting yourself / your intuition as a way of saving your life or avoiding extreme violence at those dire times in your life. Have you heard the notion that people, before being attacked/assaulted, have a feeling about the offender? It's exploring that idea.

 

[skylights]

Intuition should pose the question, but it can't answer it

yes.

of course i can only speak for Ne, but my experience is that my intuition is almost always correct in knowing when something is strange and how to respond to it in the moment, but it's not necessarily very helpful with figuring out why.

for example, when i first met someone who is a close and trusted friend now, i got "weird" vibes from her. i did not feel like i could trust her, even though she was outwardly engaging and welcoming. i got the sense that she was nice on the surface but something else was going on.

as it turns out, i was right about this. she is extremely protective and somewhat distrustful, even though she can turn on the Fe charm like crazy. however, i made the mistake at that point of assuming i was getting bad vibes because she was immoralish (not like Bad, but like, she would harm me) - like a superficial mean girl type - which isn't true at all. she's about as far from that stereotype as they come.

i've learned better since then to trust the intuition and hang the judgment. protect yourself but hold off on pushing away the other.

 

[highlander]

I think it is easier to discern whether your intuition is good or bad when you speak in an extraverted sense so I'll start there, because it isn't relied upon the inner self, but the internal logic if the internal logic doesn't make sense then the intuition is probably wrong, too. So you need to integrate your extraverted judgement into the mix, use your Te to discern your insight, without that I think introverted intuition alone can be very dangerous. Intuition should pose the question, but it can't answer it so I think it's all based on your extraverted thinking to decide whether it's right or not. You can only work with what you see and sometimes your intuition may sense it, but you may disregard a good bunch because of the lack of evidence.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. Ni does more than pose a question. Ne diverges. Ni converges. Does one need to use Ni in combination with Te to arrive at reasonable decisions? Probably most of the time but not always. The question is how to know to pay attention to those hunches when there is no solid evidence. I think I do it all the time actually.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I would say the only way you could trust your hunches without concrete evidence would mean you'd need to learn to couple your Ni with your Se. The interpretation of physical movement is your only other option. I imagine though that when Ni works it automatically takes that extraverted sensing into question. Of course the other way is to trust your intuition is to delve back into a more memory based function Si.

Edit. It may seem simple, but I would point out that any reaction or vibe you receive from a situation or person is based off of something phyiscal, you just haven't discovered why the reaction occured.

 

[Coriolis]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. Ni does more than pose a question. Ne diverges. Ni converges. Does one need to use Ni in combination with Te to arrive at reasonable decisions? Probably most of the time but not always. The question is how to know to pay attention to those hunches when there is no solid evidence. I think I do it all the time actually.

Not only does one need to use Ni in combination with Te, one does use it this way. All the functions are active in each person, not always playing nicely with each other, but it is almost impossible to isolate one and use it exclusively.

Te can be a great help in vetting the perceptions of Ni, but as you point out, it does not always have the solid, accurate evidence it needs to do this effectively. I have been in this situation plenty of times myself. I have learned over the years when to trust my intuitions in the absence of hard evidence, and when they are probably shaky. If I have any inclination that they are shaky, I reserve (final) judgment and behave in a more neutral way that keeps my options open while I collect more data through additional observation. Like Skylights, I have made some good friends by setting aside first impressions long enough to get to know the person better, over time. There have also been cases, however, when I was very glad of my initial cautious behavior. I suppose one might consider this a form of contingency planning, something we tend to be good at.

As for becoming more balanced but not as differentiated, a jack-of-all-trades is master of none, and I for one will not give up my areas of mastery.