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  1. #41
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Surely you've noticed certain people genuflect in the presence of Lenore Thomson. If she said cancer cells dance an Irish Jig, some people would actually believe it. Top o' the mornin' to ya lassie.
    Because, her definitions of things seem to be more solid, especially with all the confusion in the area of functions.

    Others have said this as well, and at first, I thought they were just another person's take on things, and had to sort through on my own to figure which were best. After trying on different expressions of the concepts, and then even having a long discussion with her, I find hers are best.
    I don't agree with everything she says, as she does not accept the common temperament-based theories as we know the, and though she discusses Beebe's model, she doesn't totally agree with that either. But I'm not giving those up for anyone.

    The ship theory was an attempt to create an eight function model before Beebe (and then Berens and the others) became popular. It does seem to have some sort of practical validity, when you see a lot of people's inferiors and sometimes even tertiary coming up weakest in Nardi's test, and people tend to expect the relative strengths to match Beebe's order (and then #8 and possibly 7 also end up coming out strong), and then wonder what their type really is (or whether they fit type at all).

    I still don't quite understand what you have against her. I forgot who you prefer. You mentioned it once, but it's easy to forget when you just knock something else, and don't provide a better answer.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  2. #42
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I am the king of Sensotardia.

    As far as I am aware, I do not believe I have any subjects and my kingdom is mine alone.

    PS: Failure to see the irony is considered a crime in my kingdom. *waves kingly cane menacingly, knocking over several vases in the process*
    The irony is right here!
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  3. #43
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I'd definitely side with subtle sensotard behavior, but people who have trouble balancing themselves or running into things and such need to go to the doctor. There's something in their ears.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Because, her definitions of things seem to be more solid [...] Others have said this as well...
    I see. So the more of a following that exists, the better.
    Jonestown and Heavens Gate were so lovely . . .

    I still don't quite understand what you have against her.
    It's nothing personal.

    I forgot who you prefer.
    Me. I think for myself and question everything.
    Names have never impressed me, Eric. But you sure do like to drop Lenore's name at every turn.

    "Lenore told me . . ."
    "Lenore told me . . ."
    "Lenore told me . . ."
    "Lenore told me . . ."

    I've often wondered if you have a poster of her on your wall.

  5. #45
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I wish I knew what she looked like.. I might buy a poster myself.

  6. #46
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Is tertiary opposite like Ne for ISFP? If so, this makes sense. Of all the functions, I think this is my least favorite. Funny, as it used to be Si... but now that I'm older, I have a distaste for Ne and don't trust it.

    Wonder if it has something to do with my INFP ex...
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    Hmmm... so would the eighth function be like something you rarely use and just don't understand at all? And as for the tertiary opposite, would this be the function that someone is the least skilled in using (aside from the last function), or rather something that causes them great discomfort? For example, I use a sort of internalized version of Fe (not to be confused with Fi) all the time, but I HATE it. I also hate it when people get all mushy-gushy, touchy-feely with me. Would you assume Fe to be my tertiary opposite or no because I tend to use it a lot?
    Being an opposite to the ID, I think it just shines through naturally. There is no arguing that to others, Ne dominants appear to embody Se and vice versa. Much is the same between Fe users ability to grapple Te situations and the reverse. It's almost a natural role compliment when the personality is in the normal mode even if it is ill recognized by the user.

  8. #48
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I see. So the more of a following that exists, the better.
    Jonestown and Heavens Gate were so lovely . . .

    Me. I think for myself and question everything.
    Names have never impressed me, Eric. But you sure do like to drop Lenore's name at every turn.

    "Lenore told me . . ."
    "Lenore told me . . ."
    "Lenore told me . . ."
    "Lenore told me . . ."

    I've often wondered if you have a poster of her on your wall.
    You conveniently cut out the part where I said I didn't agree with her on everything. Particularly temperament and the full application of the Beebe "shadows".
    But when we have a sea of often conflicting function definitions, and all the confusion that results, if someone comes up with good explanations or definitions, then if I see that they fit better, I'm going to go with those.
    You also conveniently skipped where I said that I tried on a bunch of interpretations, and these simply fit better. So just like you, making up my own mind. Only it's a different process from the way you do it. And in fact, this was something she explained to me. (Not about you, but about Ni in general, being an NTJ herself).

    It's an Ne/Ni clash. (Should add this to all the Ni and Ne/Ni threads that have been cropping up here and on PerC lately).
    Ne pieces together different patterns, so long as they seem to fit.
    Ni looks for "what's been left out" in the pattern presented that would go against the conclusion or theory made; or where the pattern "wants" to go, rather than where it "can" go. Hence, a reference to the internal inferring, and the "aha!" when this "missing" piece is found.

    So to me, it looks like someone just trying to shoot holes in Ne's conclusions for no good reason at all (and without even a better alternative). Yet it is simply an internal reason I cannot see, or have ignored evidence of. Perhaps you haven't quite put your finger on yet. (I.e. what you call "thinking for yourself").
    Does that sound about right?

    That is one example of how she is really good with making this stuff understandable.
    And you did once mention someone you 'approved' of. It might have been Myers or Quenk, or maybe just Jung himself, IIRC.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  9. #49
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    It's a nice theory, I just dont get whya its easier to find the opposite of the third function to get the whole type. That sounds like a Ni idea which is not readily-graspable if not explained properly.

    I like this description about the entp, the PoLR one from wikisocion, I can sign it 100%. I especially like the part about decency. That had alw<ys made me feel that I could be a SJ too at times.

    Fi Introverted ethics: Place of least resistance

    The ILE feels nervously in the sphere of human relations. He usually interprets his relations badly, therefore he allows relations to develop with care, he waits until he learns something for sure rather than assuming. Thus he behaves with restraint in front of people he doesn’t know.

    He cannot always discern the state of another person; he may therefore offend others in the manner by which he expresses what he’s discovered for he doesn’t seem to take into account other’s feelings in regards to the situation. But this is never the consequence of evil intent, envy or arrogance. ILE simply believes that he is speaking about something objectively, and that the truth will not offend anyone…

    ILE places vast value on the decency of a person. The criterion of decency, as a rule, is overstated. If someone seeks his company he assumes that mutual respect exists. He strongly suffers offense and injustice. He will not reconcile with others, unless the offender apologizes before him.

    ILE frequently has a wide circle of friends. He loves to consider different problems with them. They, alongside reading, radio and television, provide him with an excellent source of information.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    It's a nice theory, I just dont get whya its easier to find the opposite of the third function to get the whole type. That sounds like a Ni idea which is not readily-graspable if not explained properly.

    I like this description about the entp, the PoLR one from wikisocion, I can sign it 100%. I especially like the part about decency. That had alw<ys made me feel that I could be a SJ too at times..
    You may have noted that I often intentionally communicate in such an open ended way; I'm glad to see people are sharing that they have also seen similar accuracy in the PoLR, which is exactly what I'm describing.

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