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  1. #91
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Aren't relationships - not just romantic ones, but also friendly ones - part of what constitutes a "normal life"? How can one have a stable, healthy relationship if one does not have the capacity to feel empathy?

    I agree on the CEO thing, though, I've heard as much elsewhere.
    OK you got me on that one. I guess live "normally" superficially.

  2. #92
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i always get IFP. i was a very adventurous but not socially extraverted child.
    i think they mess up in terms of correlating E-social extravert and F-mushy gushy
    Well, hey, I've been studying this stuff for 15+ years and I still don't really understand how ENFPs work -- the inexplicable introverted/
    extroverted push-pull....
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #93
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You need to distinguish between observable behavior and internal motivations. I at best (and I'm not sure) was saying EP's might resemble each other at the beginning; what you are discussing is unobservable motivation and not of use when you're trying to figure out whether your 3-year-old is N or S.
    I thought the consensus was you shouldn't try and type someone below the age of 6 I think. The reason being is that their preferences aren't established enough to really show. It'd be like trying to decide if your baby should be in mensa or if you should start saving for a college education or not... a little presumptuous. Especially if you ended up with an ENTP!
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You need to distinguish between observable behavior and internal motivations. I at best (and I'm not sure) was saying EP's might resemble each other at the beginning; what you are discussing is unobservable motivation and not of use when you're trying to figure out whether your 3-year-old is N or S.
    This really makes a bunch of sense. I realized this when I was attempting to describe my function use as a child, and I realized that in describing my behavior as a very small child (under five or six) I pretty much just sounded like an EP, probably leaning more toward EFP.

    That's why I say the difference between N and S seems to become more pronounced in adolescence. They also say not to really try to type people unitl they're about high school age.

    I dunno. Do we really have our lead function at the age of three or four? I get ENP on that childhood test, as I've already noted. However, I answer that test based upon remembering myself at elementary school age, more like seven, eight, nine years old...

  5. #95
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    Okay, I'm about to throw out a lot of bunk here. Read it and take it how you wish. This is just a random thought I felt like posting. Enjoy.

    I don't believe that personality develops over time. Infants are seen as having distinct personalities. However, I do believe that environment can influence personality greatly... but not to begin with. Early on, we experience our "true" personality, which remains fairly constant and typically becomes stronger over time.

    Now, I've heard that it takes time for children to understand the big picture. When we are very young, we see the world as it is and take things as they come... from a sensor's perspective. Our ability to make connections and extrapolate comes from our knowledge and experience.



    So if we start showing our personalities in infancy, how do intuitive types, especially Ne- and Ni-dominants exist?

    I am one more N-dom that thinks that this is a none sense.


    I have learned to play chess when I was something like 4. Also I have intensively studied astronomy, physics and geography in order to define what INTJ profiles define as a "chess board". At the age of 5 and 6 I was already good enough in chess that I could play against grown ups without a problem.
    At seven I have continued to more complex games. (mostly video games)

    So by the age of 10 I was already pretty much out of all social standards. For example it wasnt a problem for me to attack the teachers on factual and methodological basis.

    Etc.


    The thing is that no one was teaching me all of that or has even forced me to be like this. (actually it was the opposite) So basically I went just the opposite from the standard model. First I have learned the big picture and then I have continued down to the details and doing. (but I didnt stop to study the big picture since my desired perspective is still global/cosmic)

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    Now, I've heard that it takes time for children to understand the big picture. When we are very young, we see the world as it is and take things as they come... from a sensor's perspective. Our ability to make connections and extrapolate comes from our knowledge and experience. It can only increase with time. Unless you're some sort of crazy child-prodigy, of course.
    I don't really know how to determine whether one is a sensor or an intuitor when one is a just a child but I can see a difference between my twin brother (ISTP) and I for example. We both were "ITP" children.


    Questions I asked as a child : (more or less like that)
    -Do you have many layers of thoughts ? (I pictured my brain as a spaceship with huge tanks filled with fluorescent water and people giving different layers of thoughts.)
    -What if I wasn't born ? Would I be the thoughts of somebody else or would I be nothing ?
    -Could I have been inside the brain of someone else with different thoughts ?
    -Why do people draw the sky as a blue thing on top of a page when it's all around us and transparent when we're in it ?
    -Are we controled by somebody else who makes us think we are real ?
    -What's around the universe ?

    --> Annoying little girl with vivid imagination.

    Questions my brother asked (he was rather quiet) :
    -How does it work ?
    -What is this ?

    --> Curious little boy who wants to know and understand.

    Both : Why ? (which is apparently typical of children).

    I was a leader in imaginative plays and story telling. Known to be disconected from the real world (dreamer, observer).
    He learned things and experimented them (measure of angles, water boiling, etc) - a doer (builder, destroyer).

    We were both into science though. I started to be into psychology and philosophy at 12, he grew out of the questionning thing and favour pratical use over theories though he needs them.

    There are still things we both had decided to learn by ourselves (like most people I guess) and I assume that he was perhaps more intuitive than me in that he had understood that one could read silently and I didn't (or I was extremely dumb and annoying).

    What can we tell ? That children are curious for different things and need to learn but can imagine other possibilities than what's in front of them and can be sensed.

    What I do think is that everyone needs experience, whether you are a sensor or an intuitor. You can't just use one of the function, you have a dominant function but you can't live in this world being a purely sensing being or a purely intuitive being (an idea ?). This wouldn't make sense.


    --

    I've noticed differences in the young children I work with, some may be more likely to be sensors than others, they are all rather immature (which is normal) and not really stable yet because they haven't developped their abilities but I think some might be more intuitive than other from a young age. Some are more likely to have their own world than others. Some accept everything the teacher tell them, some argue. Is it because of their functions ?

    Though, honestly, it's not even easier to determine properly the I/E thing, some may be in a crowd of friends but still be secretely Introverts.

    Perhaps personality is determined at birth, but it does develop over time and is influenced by what we go through, functions are just a part of our personality by the way.
    Feel no shame for what you are...

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  7. #97
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    Hmm... going back to Piaget's theory... I find it interesting how he decided a set age for each of these "stages." Granted, it has problems, and I realize that, but it's also interesting how you can assign each of these stages as being more intuitive or more sensor-ish.

    Sensorimotor - S
    Preoperational - N
    Concrete operational - S
    Formal operational - N

    Dunno if it's significant, but I just noticed it.

    I've also just thought of something... perhaps N's have more fluid intelligence than S's, or they simply like using it more. Idk.

    Again, I'm just typing randomly what I'm thinking. :P

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