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  1. #1
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Default The importance of the temperaments in MBTT

    I just realised today that the temperaments aren't actually a proper part of MBTT; they were thought up by Keirsey, who says that while he uses the same letters, he doesn't use the same types; they're completely different, a bit like socionics and MBTT. The descriptions can even look and sound the same, but the types are different.

    So what is the use of the temperaments in MBTT?

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    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I just realised today that the temperaments aren't actually a proper part of MBTT; they were thought up by Keirsey, who says that while he uses the same letters, he doesn't use the same types; they're completely different, a bit like socionics and MBTT. The descriptions can even look and sound the same, but the types are different.

    So what is the use of the temperaments in MBTT?
    Temperament has been around far longer than Keirsey. Jung had dabbled in the theory as well. If we want to be technical, Myers-Briggs work does not completly follow other schools, including Jung's work. Jung never wanted his function definitions to be used as typology and there is no indication that he ever agreed with Myers' work. I would say that all of the theories take needed information from one another, but then create systems that eventually become incomparable to the preceding school of thought.

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    Senior Member nemo's Avatar
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    To me, temperament theory has the advantage of being way more easily observable.

    Also, I think Keirsey himself does mention in his book that there's an extremely high correlation between the two models; so it's rather rare to find someone who has a different MBTI type and Temperament type (whatever you want to call it under his system). Although I personally suspect some people around here would be different types under his model, but blah...

    Actually, since Please Understand Me II was the first book my friend gave me on all this stuff, I'm hugely biased towards it. In many ways, I prefer it.
    You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. - Jack London

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    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    I find types interesting, but difficult to deal with on the spot. Tempraments are easier to observe, understand and use, while they leave enought "space" to the individual.
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

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    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    I think temperaments are in fact useful. Temperaments are generalizations as well as MBTI types are. Types are not identical among the temperaments and people are not identical among types.

    One can think the temperaments in Keirsey's way (NT, NF, SP, SJ) or in Myers-Briggs way (NT, NF, ST, SF). Both can help when trying to identify somebody's type.

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    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ?";169377][URL="http://www.interstrength.com/curriculum/temperament.html
    Temperament has been around far longer than Keirsey[/URL]. Jung had dabbled in the theory as well.
    Of course. I completely forgot about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    Also, I think Keirsey himself does mention in his book that there's an extremely high correlation between the two models; so it's rather rare to find someone who has a different MBTI type and Temperament type (whatever you want to call it under his system).
    I agree.

    Although I personally suspect some people around here would be different types under his model, but blah...
    Perhaps. Have you read the notes in the back of Please Understand Me II about the MBTT/KTT type differences?

    Actually, since Please Understand Me II was the first book my friend gave me on all this stuff, I'm hugely biased towards it. In many ways, I prefer it.
    As with anything. Since reading that, I've gained far greater insight into Keirsey, where once I thought it was just a rip off of MBTT.

    [quote=Alcearos;170216]I think temperaments are in fact useful. Temperaments are generalizations as well as MBTI types are. Types are not identical among the temperaments and people are not identical among types.

    One can think the temperaments in Keirsey's way (NT, NF, SP, SJ) or in Myers-Briggs way (NT, NF, ST, SF). Both can help when trying to identify somebody's type.
    Keirsey's rationale for why he changed the temperaments from ST and SF to SP and SJ is very logical. He says that SJs and SPs have more in common. However, MBTT is the same as socionics as far as temperaments (or clubs, as they are called in Keirsey - temperaments are EJ, IJ, EP, IP). I'd like to understand the rational behind Myers-Briggs temperaments, and why on this forum, they're represented by the Keirseian temperaments.

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    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    So what is the use of the temperaments in MBTT?
    Oh yeah your point to this thread.... This may be an oversimplification but I see the systems working this way: temperament=being very general in defining the core needs and intellectual preferences for a group (i.e. SP-Tactical, NT-Strategic,NF-Diplomatic and SJ-Traditional or based on Myers-Briggs ST,NT,SF,NF), dichotomous systems being a bit more narrow (E/I,S/N,T/F,J/P) and Jung's work being specific in using the functions (Ne,Si,Te, etc). In her book "Gifts Differing", Myers-Briggs refers to all three systems. It's not hard to correlate the systems, but I have found the temperament system combined with Berens' interaction styles makes for an easy means of determining one's type.

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    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    [...]temperament=being very general in defining the core needs and intellectual preferences for a group (i.e. SP-Tactical, NT-Strategic,NF-Diplomatic and SJ-Traditional or based on Myers-Briggs ST,NT,SF,NF)[...]
    Okay, is there any kind of online description of the MBTT temperaments (i.e. ST, NT, SF and NF); not the Keirseyan temperaments?

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    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Okay, is there any kind of online description of the MBTT temperaments (i.e. ST, NT, SF and NF); not the Keirseyan temperaments?
    Myers-Briggs, XYZ Leadership and Team Roles by David M. Boje, Ph.D.

    Kent Blumberg: Using Meyers-Briggs concepts to better communicate at work

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