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  1. #1
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Default Short Version (19KB) on APS Temperament system

    http://www.erictb.info/temperament1s.html

    Just as I eventually made a short version of my MBTI type page, I don't know why I didn't consider the same thing for the temperament page. (Which a short version was really needed more for, since this system is so unknown, unlike the familiar Type theory).
    Sorry I had everyone read those long "every technical detail from scratch" pages, though some were able to read through them, while I guess for most, it was a bit too much. (I guess I know how it feels now, as I have been having a knowledgeable person describe to me the meanings of Jung's concepts, such as the nature of "undifferentiated functions", and as much as I even want to digest it, some of the stuff is really hard to wrap my mind around, and the same thing with Jung's own writing, of course!)

    So hopefully, this new page will be more digestible, and give people enough information about the temperament system I'm always talking about and how exacly it works.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  2. #2
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    That page has a lot of intersting info! Just a question, though - You showed us before a diagram where you associated Enneagram types with temperaments or temperament blends - this one:



    However, your page also associates temperaments/temperament blends with MBTI types... In that case, would you consider an INFP 5 Phlegmatic, Supine or Melancholic?

  3. #3
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I've kind of stepped back from that correlation for now. In my theory, INFP would be 6 (Supine) or 9 (Phlegmatic), or 4 (Supine-Phlegmatic combo), which are common E types for it, but a 5 would be Melancholy, and thus an IST, INJ or at least SJ type. Yet, since there are apparently things like INFP 5's, then I'm not sure. Plus most INTP's being 5, even though they would be 6, 9, and even some 8 if my theory were true.

    I believe for now that the enneatype might be a total blending of the full Inclusion-Control-Affection combination. So as both Supine and Choleric, my overall behavior "averages out" to a kind of Melancholy, and thus 5, though with the Supine traces coming out as a 4 or 6 wing. (Or 6 with a 5 wing). (Likewise, most INTP's coming out as Melancholy when they take Galen tests).

    As I've always mentioned, I believe that the instinctual variants are direct counterparts of the three areas:

    so=Inclusion
    sp=Control
    sx=Affection.

    But Enneagram does not stack different types according to them. If they did, I would be 6so8sp6sx. Instead, it's a whole other thing that is done with them, with a "dominant" variant and all that. So 6-8-6 would average out to a 5, 5w4, or 6w5/5w6. It's like the Choleric 8 is "mellowed down" into a Melancholy 5 by mixing with the totally opposite Supine 6.

    That's the best I can make of it for now.

    Another idea is that perhaps the Enneatype is Affection by itself (which is not usually covered in type according to my correlation). So an INFP 5 might be Supine-Supine-Melancholy, Phlegmatic-Phlegmatic-Melancholy, Supine-Phlegmatic-Melancholy, etc. Would be funny if the person was sx dominant as well.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  4. #4
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Hmmm... That makes sense, thanks! I was just curious.

  5. #5
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    So hopefully, this new page will be more digestible, and give people enough information about the temperament system I'm always talking about and how exacly it works.
    Yes, this was excellent! The inclusion-control-affection chart was very clear. Going by that one, I would be Sanguine in inclusion, Phlegmatic-Choleric in control, and Choleric in affection (which appears to line up with ENxP). It's still somewhat tricky to get all the different definitions of the temperaments to line up, but this is the closest I've been able to get to so far.

  6. #6
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ENFP: SanguineSupine

    huh! i id as supine-sanguine-sanguine.

    that's fun. i pretty much line up.

  7. #7
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Going by the chart thingy:

    Supine inclusion: Everybody IN; but you must reach out and invite me!

    Melancholy control: "I don't control you, so please don't try to control me"


    Which correlates to ISFJ.


    Same interaction style, same top four functions in different order compared to INTP. So not that far off, really.


    In affection I kinda alternate between choleric and supine.
    Choleric affection: emotionally FAR, unless I approach you for my purposes
    Supine affection: emotionally CLOSE, but you must reach out to me
    INtp
    5w6 or 9w1 sp/so/sx, I think
    Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff
    Neutral Good
    LII-Ne




  8. #8
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    huh! i id as supine-sanguine-sanguine.

    that's fun. i pretty much line up.
    So you identify with Sanguine in Control? That one has the "dependent/independent swing". Though with blended temperaments (mix of Sanguine and Supine), they do modify each other, with one being more expressive and initiating, and the other more passive. Sanguine in control does seem to fit an SP, as they're driven by impulse.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    Going by the chart thingy:

    Supine inclusion: Everybody IN; but you must reach out and invite me!

    Melancholy control: "I don't control you, so please don't try to control me"

    Which correlates to ISFJ.

    Same interaction style, same top four functions in different order compared to INTP. So not that far off, really.
    Well, the Melancholy in Control is driven by a need for familiarity, (which matches SJ), but again, the temperaments modify each other.

    Choleric mixed with Supine is going to be less controlling (because the Supine, on the social and/or deep personal level, doesn't want to step on other's toes). So it's like an inner conflict, and I would have probably picked out Melancholy on that definition as well. (The actual test sorted it out, however, and it made sense). I often feel "I'm not controlling you, so don't control me", and wouldn't have initially thought I wanted to be "the Boss", but when the situation is right (especially when it comes to meeting the T need for things to "make sense", coupled with N), then it does fit. Melancholy and Choleric both share the low Wanted, which is the "don't control me" part of it. What's different is how they expresses, and this can be influenced by the other areas.
    The expressed Control comes up more to fill in for the passive Inclusion (like if you want more interaction than you're getting, or people are taking advantage of you).

    In affection I kinda alternate between choleric and supine.
    Choleric affection: emotionally FAR, unless I approach you for my purposes
    Supine affection: emotionally CLOSE, but you must reach out to me
    That's funny. Those are diametric opposite. It's probably the influence of the Control, then. I came out as Supine "Compulsive" in Affection, which indicates a compulsive want, but it really didn't seem like it. I determined it was because of the Control setting up a protective wall, where if I think the person is not emotionally safe, I shut them out. Even if it's someone close, and they're not being nice or something. However, when someone is being affectionate, it's like I can never get enough. So again, it's a matter of sorting out how the temperaments modify each other.
    The way that table you referenced is set up, you have to get through the Inclusion, and then the Control, before you get to the Affection. It's like the core of the person's needs.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

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