User Tag List

First 7891011 Last

Results 81 to 90 of 171

  1. #81
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,390

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    So again, I'm not understanding what the big deal is about using the words "unhealthy" and "healthy". All I'm hearing is fuzzy logic and over sensitivity to the usage of a simple adjective. Nobody has scratched their nails across a chalk board! Though this thread makes me want to. It's nonsense. I have not seen one logical argument here as to why we should stop using the word "unhealthy". I'd never even fathom asking people to stop using common adjectives in a public forum. I'm just not that particular or controlling. We all should work together and learn to accept our differences and pick legitimate battles. My vote: this is *not* a legitimate battle!
    You have yet to provide anything other than fuzzy logic in favour of it.

    Therefore you should not believe your opinion to be above others; others understand themselves better than you understand them therefore your opinion is merely a second hand opinion of them and less relevant and thus less important. Without the relevant quality of information and indeed understanding of that other individual then you are using one upmanship subjective judgements rather than trying to expand knowledge and to reach relevant conclusions which legitimately assist others and yourself. It's actually self gratification by labelling another as unhealthy you are merely boosting your ego.

    In effect the unhealthy label is little more than mental masturbation: "I disagree with your argument, therefore your F/T is unhealthy, herp derp. I vote that this is not a legitimate topic and you are all unhealthy for discussing it!". Le sigh.

  2. #82
    A window to the soul
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    You have yet to provide anything other than fuzzy logic in favour of it.

    Therefore you should not believe your opinion to be above others; others understand themselves better than you understand them therefore your opinion is merely a second hand opinion of them and less relevant and thus less important. Without the relevant quality of information and indeed understanding of that other individual then you are using one upmanship subjective judgements rather than trying to expand knowledge and to reach relevant conclusions which legitimately assist others and yourself. It's actually self gratification by labelling another as unhealthy you are merely boosting your ego.

    In effect the unhealthy label is little more than mental masturbation: "I disagree with your argument, therefore your F/T is unhealthy, herp derp. I vote that this is not a legitimate topic and you are all unhealthy for discussing it!". Le sigh.
    I provided a dictionary definition and a logical argument. I stated the facts. You have not made your case. I'm open to hear it.

    I'm among many others that do not agree with you.

  3. #83
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,390

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I provided a dictionary definition and a logical argument. I stated the facts. You have not made your case. I'm open to hear it.

    I'm among many others that do not agree with you.
    Dictionary, so relevant to the art of understanding individuals?

    The point is simple; you don't have the relevant knowledge to responsibly use the label, thus it is false in its use regardless of what the dictionary says or indeed how mighty you view your observations to be.

  4. #84
    A window to the soul
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Therefore you should not believe your opinion to be above others; others understand themselves better than you understand them therefore your opinion is merely a second hand opinion of them and less relevant and thus less important.
    As far as your comment about me seeking to have my opinion above others, I'm seeking that you leave people alone and not regulate the usage of the word "unhealthy". That's my goal.

  5. #85
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Dictionary, so relevant to the art of understanding individuals?

    The point is simple; you don't have the relevant knowledge to responsibly use the label, thus it is false in its use regardless of what the dictionary says or indeed how mighty you view your observations to be.
    Whether it's relevant or not to someone's experience, the phenomenon of an "unhealthy state" exists to you at least, doesn't it? You could very well argue that it doesn't, that nobody is truly unhealthy or healthy, but since we're on a site that's loosely tied to the subject of psychology, then I'll assume that you think it does. Or are you just warning against armchair psychology? When is it valid at all to use the label "unhealthy"?

  6. #86
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,390

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    As far as your comment about me seeking to have my opinion above others, I'm seeking that you leave people alone and not regulate the usage of the word "unhealthy". That's my goal.
    'I wish to maintain my right to use the word 'unhealthy' when referring to others when I cannot win an argument through logic because it is a topic regarding opinion.'

    You are ENTP, I get it

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Whether it's relevant or not to someone's experience, the phenomenon of an "unhealthy state" exists to you at least, doesn't it? You could very well argue that it doesn't, that nobody is truly unhealthy or healthy, but since we're on a site that's loosely tied to the subject of psychology, then I'll assume that you think it does. Or are you just warning against armchair psychology? When is it valid at all to use the label "unhealthy"?
    With regards to cognition, no, it isn't a sensible concept because of how it is used. In terms of behaviour, yes, it is a more sensible breakdown.

    I would say it is not valid to use the healthy label with regards to cognition and more importantly, it is often used as a crutch for a poor argument regarding the opinions of others rather than as a logical breakdown of why something should be or shouldn't.

  7. #87
    A window to the soul
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    'I wish to maintain my right to use the word 'unhealthy' when referring to others when I cannot win an argument through logic because it is a topic regarding opinion.'

    You are ENTP, I get it
    I don't like petty limitations, dangit!!

  8. #88
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,390

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I don't like petty limitations, dangit!!
    So why limit the rights of others opinions by labelling them unhealthy or healthy based upon your opinion? Do unto others?

  9. #89
    A window to the soul
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    So why limit the rights of others opinions by labelling them unhealthy or healthy based upon your opinion? Do unto others?
    I want to hear others' opinions. From there, I'll analyze and filter the information accordingly. It might be the catalyst for change. How I treat the information, depends on various things; such as, how much I respect the person and how useful the information is. Isn't that how most of us deal with our day to day interactions? We dig deeper if we want to know more.

    So with that said, it's about putting things in their proper context. An opinion is just an opinion. A novice is just a novice. When someone uses the term 'unhealthy', I consider the source. "It's judgmental," as some of you have argued, but that doesn't matter to me. I still want to hear it. I'll decide for myself if it's useful information.

  10. #90
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I guess I must be one of those offensive people who uses the healthy/unhealthy descriptors in this way.
    The basis of my understanding of this comes from the book by Naomi Quenk called Beside Ourselves, which has since been revised and is now called, Was That Really Me?.

    Besides the book, I have my own personal experiences with which the book has been of immense help.
    For example, when my husband suddenly passed away two years ago, the shock overcame me. I felt like a deer caught in headlights for a solid 4 weeks with continuing effects for 2 more weeks. All in all, I know that I was not physically "normal" for 6 months.
    The most frustrating part of that experience was that my normal cognitive functions were completely unavailable to me in any way that I was used relying on them. I was an "ESFP" for months and months. I had to make judgements based on my feelings instead of my usual methods which usually include cold hard calculation and research. It was very uncomfortable for me. I KNEW I was not in my "right mind" and there was nothing I could do about it.
    As it turned out, when my doctor put me on an anti-anxiety anti-depression medication for an entirely different reason, within 2 weeks, my old familiar thought processes returned to me and I was back to being my old comfortable INTJ self again - as far as my cognitive functions are concerned. I hadn't realized how far away from my real self I still was until the medication made me better. These "Beside Ourselves" episodes can last for less than a day, or as I have seen, can even last over a year.

    "Unhealthy" is just short-cut language. Call it what you will. It DOES happen.
    I don't think there is a failure of Typology.
    Naomi Quenk describes the symptoms perfectly, all within the realm of Typology.
    I didn't say unhealthiness didn't exist (though I'm skeptical when people say that they "turned into XXXX type" because they're unhealthy...I mean, yeah, you may exhibit SOME behaviors that individuals of your shadow type would if they were unhealthy, but you don't really become that type, nor would you ever really be confused for that type), just that it's kind of a meaningless term when it's applied to others. You can feel free to call yourself unhealthy all you want, but when it comes to calling OTHER PEOPLE unhealthy (especially those known only through limited interaction on the internet) it's kind of, well, bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Whether it's relevant or not to someone's experience, the phenomenon of an "unhealthy state" exists to you at least, doesn't it? You could very well argue that it doesn't, that nobody is truly unhealthy or healthy, but since we're on a site that's loosely tied to the subject of psychology, then I'll assume that you think it does. Or are you just warning against armchair psychology? When is it valid at all to use the label "unhealthy"?
    It's funny that you bring up "armchair psychology" in this context. Isn't that just what referring to someone as "unhealthy" is when you're not a psychologist? As for examples of function usage, I don't think we have a very clear set of criteria for determining what is "healthy" behavior and what is not (not least because it's sort of nonsense to think that we can pinpoint specific behaviors as being the result of individual functions anyway.) The result of this intellectually lazy way of labeling behaviors is that people throw the term around willy nilly in attempts to discredit one another or rationalize their types.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

Similar Threads

  1. Evolution of typology
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 150
    Last Post: 01-31-2013, 05:33 AM
  2. Principles of Typology
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 08-20-2012, 08:20 PM
  3. Depression as a failure of creativity?
    By ygolo in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 03-27-2009, 03:52 PM
  4. Overview of Typology
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 03-07-2009, 03:10 PM
  5. Problems of Typology
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 04-26-2008, 11:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO