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  1. #51
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post


    I am curious. Where?
    Jung, although I don't think he had a real way to categorize "healthy," it was more like an impossible ideal.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  2. #52
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    it wasnt split into those, big 5 is whole different thing, we went through of how big 5 was developed(and meanings for(+where they got from) agreeableness and conscientiousness) on out personality psychology class. we also went through eysencks type theory and this psychotism thing. agreeableness and conscientiousness were formed while trying to figure out what were the basic traits of personality. big 5 isnt some old theories modified like MBTI is from jungs psychological types
    This article suggests they were, and that eysenck acknowledged them as such, though still felt his factor was better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Eysenck

    Extraversion and Neuroticism in the Big Five are similar to Eysenck's traits of the same name. However, what Eysenck calls the trait of Psychoticism corresponds to two traits in the Big Five model: Conscientiousness and Agreeableness. Eysenck's personality system did not address Openness to experience. He argued that his approach was a better description of personality (Eysenck, 1992a; 1992b).
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  3. #53
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    *grumbles* er, um, well...

    unhealthy/healthy
    normal/shadow
    conscious/unconscious
    differentiated/undifferentiated

    These all seem sort of black and white to me... also what did Jesus say? the guy with no sins gets to cast the first stone? So I do agree in some sense that it isnt a good idea to start telling other people they are not using their functions "healthily". Also since we all have different scales of judgment, healthy and normal will vary pretty dramatically in definition until you hit an extreme edge of VERY unhealthy behavior.

    But it does seem pretty obvious that the more you use a function, the better you are at using it. Thus likely when you do chose to deploy your dom function you are less likely to maim and kill others around you in blaze of splendid glory. I suspect you may also be better at understanding the breakpoints and flaws of the function-you have spent a lifetime working with it, thus are very, very good at using it with precision and refinement and avoiding making mistakes. You are also very good at recognizing the more negative aspects of that function and have likely learned to tune down or compensate for those negative aspects in order to fit in with others better.

    However does that mean we should all avoid using our less developed functions because we may look "unhealthy" since we dont have as much skill with them? Seems silly, as we will use those functions in one way or another. Jung said the answer was to actively recognizing when we are using them-because use them we most certainly will, unconsciously, regardless of intent.

    By recognizing our own shadow, our lesser functions, we become more aware of it and learn to use it more productively and hopefully learn to use it in a less negative way. By denying our own shadow we repress it and it explodes outwards and hurts us and those around us.

    Part of the diversity of humanity lies in how very different our developmental paths can be and how the environment can drastically alter the native footprint of any particular type, to to better fit the world around them, so to start defining what is normal/healthy behavior for a type or function is very presumptous. Additionally, we all fluctuate as we evolve, thus we will have these functions growing in of their own accord in peaks and valleys as we age-with the associated tough times as we learn to understand those aspects of our own minds, pretty or not, "healthy" or not, we are only human.

    Also, my favorite...why should remain trapped in a predefined footprint? If part of breaking free from that mold means learning to use those other innate aspects of our personality, even if in a rough manner at first, why would one NOT attempt to do so? (This isnt rhetorical, Id actually love explanations )

  4. #54
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Very well said.

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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    These all seem sort of black and white to me... also what did Jesus say? the guy with no sins gets to cast the first stone? So I do agree in some sense that it isnt a good idea to start telling other people they are not using their functions "healthily". Also since we all have different scales of judgment, healthy and normal will vary pretty dramatically in definition until you hit an extreme edge of VERY unhealthy behavior.
    Judgment? For heaven's sake, what does this topic, "Unhealthy vs. Healthy - a Failure of Typology", have to do with Jesus Christ and casting stones? This isn't judgment day! "Unhealthy" is just a simple adjective with simple meaning. It's *not* judgment in the same sense as your example. You're taking things out of context. Is constructive criticism judgment?

    I think people should be free to tell others they're in an unhealthy loop or that their implementation of a function is unhealthy. This isn't limited to shadow functioning. As I've said before, "unhealthy" is not a difficult thing to spot. There are *widely accepted* ideas of what's healthy and what's not. I have no problem if someone wants to tell me I'm unhealthy and break it down on a function level by implementation. I appreciate the constructive critisism.


    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    However does that mean we should all avoid using our less developed functions because we may look "unhealthy" since we dont have as much skill with them?
    No and I don't think anyone ever said that in this thread. I know the OP didn't say that. As a matter of fact, you are the first person I've seen make that assumption. Where are you getting that from? Who are you debating? Specifically, how does a weak function look unhealthy if, as you said, you "recognize it"? an example?

    I don't recall anyone ever telling you not to use your less developed functions because it makes you look unhealthy.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I think people should be free to tell others they're in an unhealthy loop or that their implementation of a function is unhealthy.
    If a member is that intent on telling another member they're in an "unhealthy loop," they may just be looking at themselves in the mirror and don't like what they see.

    Projections change the world into the replica of one's own unknown face.
    - Carl Jung
    The future is for the unafraid.

  7. #57
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    If a member is that intent on telling another member they're in an "unhealthy loop," they may just be looking at themselves in the mirror and don't like what they see.

    Projections change the world into the replica of one's own unknown face.
    - Carl Jung
    When you put it that way, it doesn't sound very nice.
    It's the shadow. It's the self that shows when we're stressed out. It happens to everyone. It's a temporary phase.

  8. #58
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    Cool Constructive Critisism

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    If a member is that intent on telling another member they're in an "unhealthy loop," they may just be looking at themselves in the mirror and don't like what they see.

    Projections change the world into the replica of one's own unknown face.
    - Carl Jung
    Come on, projection is not what I'm talking about. That's trolling isn't it? The goal of constructive critisism is for positive change; there's a time and place for it.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    When you put it that way, it doesn't sound very nice.
    Tell Carl.
    The future is for the unafraid.

  10. #60
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Tell Carl.
    Does the kitty need a hug?

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