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  1. #41
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Psychoticism supposedly was split into agreaableness and conscientiousness by later FFM theorists.
    Most other theories using the temperaments use a factor more analogous to agreebleness instead of neuroticism.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Psychoticism supposedly was split into agreaableness and conscientiousness by later FFM theorists.
    Most other theories using the temperaments use a factor more analogous to agreebleness instead of neuroticism.
    it wasnt split into those, big 5 is whole different thing, we went through of how big 5 was developed(and meanings for(+where they got from) agreeableness and conscientiousness) on out personality psychology class. we also went through eysencks type theory and this psychotism thing. agreeableness and conscientiousness were formed while trying to figure out what were the basic traits of personality. big 5 isnt some old theories modified like MBTI is from jungs psychological types
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  3. #43
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I think I'll just quote myself on the topic:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar
    With all due respect, there is no set "standard" for what is, and what is not, healthy.
    In this forum, it's getting pretty old reading "Oh that's an unhealthy XXXX!"
    Of the instances in which I have seen a similar statement used,
    I believe it was referring to someone who was so emotionally troubled,
    they were no longer behaving as their Type, but rather as their opposite.
    When I myself am not in my right mind, I become an ESFP.
    Not not a "healthy" ESFP but rather a defective ESFP.
    Is there some other way you would prefer people to communicate that?

  4. #44
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    More importantly I've never seen any sort of typological discourse which discusses unhealthy or healthy states in more rigorous typology discussion and literature. I might say it's a uniquely invented paradox of online typology communities and has little to do with cognitive functioning but everything to do with those who use the labels.
    Yes, I agree. I also think it's a rationalization tactic for those that wish to call themselves or others XXXX type in spite of contradictory evidence. "Oh, I'm still an INTP; I was just in an SFJ shadow because I was unhealthy."
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  5. #45
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    unhealthy person is basically someone using his functions in really unbalanced way. unhealthy traits manifest when those functions are used in unbalanced way on some particular thing.

    it should be mentioned that weak functions can cause imbalance(that leads to negative traits) quite easily, especially if they are used regularly even tho they are weak
    I agree with these points. This is what I was thinking "unhealthy" means. An example would be very poor development of the auxiliary or the inferior function manifesting itself excessively and negatively. Over the years, I have known people with this lack of balance and it does seem they are less "healthy".

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    The healthy-unhealthy spectrum has no origin with forums. The first time I saw this terminology in use came before these forums existed. But it's good to ponder the terminology we use sometimes to describe this.
    I am curious. Where?

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  6. #46
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    This isn't rocket science. If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...

    healthy - Indicative of sound, rational thinking or frame of mind: a healthy attitude; (source)
    healthy - functioning well or being sound; (source)
    healthy - exercising or showing good judgment; (source)

    Synonyms: healthy, sound, wholesome, hale, well, hardy, vigorous (source)

    Sounds like the unhealthy folks don't like the word healthy then? :p Based on the bolded definition above, I can see where an unhealthy person would be uncomfortable with that (the idea of rational thinking and a healthy attitude, which is not difficult to spot)... /light-hearted

    Edit: If you're not sure what a "healthy attitude" is (as stated in the dictionary example), then I recommend you look it up. There are widely accepted "healthy" behaviors/attitudes that many of us subscribe to. Yes, you can absolutely apply this term to the person and at the function level, why not? (i.e., healthy vs unhealthy "functional attitudes"... also look it up.)

    An irrational person making poor decisions = unhealthy!...
    Examples: drunk drivers, abusive/cheating partners, addicts

    My conclusion: We can whitewash what we're looking at with some other adjectives. It doesn't matter to me, as long as we all understand that there are good behaviors/attitudes/people that are rewarded in life and there are bad behaviors/attitudes/people that are punished. That's where "learned behavior" comes into play (Psychology 101).

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    An irrational person making poor decisions = unhealthy!....
    Said the irrational dominant making a subjective point

    I understand your point, but I can't agree with how it is deployed.

  8. #48
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yes, I agree. I also think it's a rationalization tactic for those that wish to call themselves or others XXXX type in spite of contradictory evidence. "Oh, I'm still an INTP; I was just in an SFJ shadow because I was unhealthy."
    I guess I must be one of those offensive people who uses the healthy/unhealthy descriptors in this way.
    The basis of my understanding of this comes from the book by Naomi Quenk called Beside Ourselves, which has since been revised and is now called, Was That Really Me?.

    Besides the book, I have my own personal experiences with which the book has been of immense help.
    For example, when my husband suddenly passed away two years ago, the shock overcame me. I felt like a deer caught in headlights for a solid 4 weeks with continuing effects for 2 more weeks. All in all, I know that I was not physically "normal" for 6 months.
    The most frustrating part of that experience was that my normal cognitive functions were completely unavailable to me in any way that I was used relying on them. I was an "ESFP" for months and months. I had to make judgements based on my feelings instead of my usual methods which usually include cold hard calculation and research. It was very uncomfortable for me. I KNEW I was not in my "right mind" and there was nothing I could do about it.
    As it turned out, when my doctor put me on an anti-anxiety anti-depression medication for an entirely different reason, within 2 weeks, my old familiar thought processes returned to me and I was back to being my old comfortable INTJ self again - as far as my cognitive functions are concerned. I hadn't realized how far away from my real self I still was until the medication made me better. These "Beside Ourselves" episodes can last for less than a day, or as I have seen, can even last over a year.

    "Unhealthy" is just short-cut language. Call it what you will. It DOES happen.
    I don't think there is a failure of Typology.
    Naomi Quenk describes the symptoms perfectly, all within the realm of Typology.

  9. #49
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I guess I must be one of those offensive people who uses the healthy/unhealthy descriptors in this way.
    The basis of my understanding of this comes from the book by Naomi Quenk called Beside Ourselves, which has since been revised and is now called, Was That Really Me?.

    Besides the book, I have my own personal experiences with which the book has been of immense help.
    For example, when my husband suddenly passed away two years ago, the shock overcame me. I felt like a deer caught in headlights for a solid 4 weeks with continuing effects for 2 more weeks. All in all, I know that I was not physically "normal" for 6 months.
    The most frustrating part of that experience was that my normal cognitive functions were completely unavailable to me in any way that I was used relying on them. I was an "ESFP" for months and months. I had to make judgements based on my feelings instead of my usual methods which usually include cold hard calculation and research. It was very uncomfortable for me. I KNEW I was not in my "right mind" and there was nothing I could do about it.
    As it turned out, when my doctor put me on an anti-anxiety anti-depression medication for an entirely different reason, within 2 weeks, my old familiar thought processes returned to me and I was back to being my old comfortable INTJ self again - as far as my cognitive functions are concerned. I hadn't realized how far away from my real self I still was until the medication made me better. These "Beside Ourselves" episodes can last for less than a day, or as I have seen, can even last over a year.

    "Unhealthy" is just short-cut language. Call it what you will. It DOES happen.
    I don't think there is a failure of Typology.
    Naomi Quenk describes the symptoms perfectly, all within the realm of Typology.
    This is an excellent example and description.

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  10. #50
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    This isn't rocket science. If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...

    .[/I]
    unless it's a dog raised by ducks than it might be a dog who thinks it's a duck.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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