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  1. #161
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    My ex is violent and fucking nuts. He has poor impulse control, it's like he's two different people, like almost two distinct personalities. His parents even know something is wrong with him. Some people are mentally disturbed in a way that is destructive to both other people and themselves, and that's that.

    However, those cases aren't about function order, but about personality disorder or mental illness.
    Function order? Wait have I missed something?

    Please tell me no one is suggesting that a particular order of functions is unhealthy for people... It's not the behaviour manifest but why it's there which determines if it's healthy or not. Should I never burst into tears or suffer empathy out the whazzo for no particular reason? I think frickin not. If you CAN'T flex from your defined preferences, if they are the quoted 100% (not that I believe in the percentages stuff particularly) then THAT is a sign of being unhealthy/ under developed. And no I don't really care how much someone can claim to be 100% T, if they are then they're either disturbed or just plain thick.

    I would agree that function order tells you the order of preferences of an individual and I'd guess that any model presented which said that this format is correct is born out of ignorance not insight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I've suffered from depression and anxiety (which I am now thinking is PTSD, especially because of which medications and methods have worked for me) and I can tell you that there is an "unhealthy" version of me when I'm having panic attacks and am so depressed I can't stop crying. However, I don't have the problems that my ex has, because I'm not destructive to other people in the same way - his problems are more severe, and much like most people with his particular level of sickness, he won't get help. It's ironic to me that it's often the people who need help the most that won't get it, and that the people who do manage to get help are usually people who suffer from things like panic attacks, depression, or PTSD, etc.
    Stress is a bad buzz word at the moment. More people are claiming to suffer from stress, often accurately, but because of this up surge and the vast majority suffering temporary set backs compared to chronic sufferers means that people look at you twice if you are diagnosed as stressed. It seems they're just as likely to prescribe a strong drink as anything more useful.

    Still, I guess, as research has shown stress to be a potential killer then yes it would deserve the title of "unhealthy". Mind you it's all shades of grey. Consider sea green or turquoise. One guy calls it blue, the other green.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Probably an unhealthy FJ, for sure. ISFJ is probably correct if she's capable of controlling and manipulating people to the extent of obeying her (that's crazy, I'd probably smack her, but I don't have Fe...I wonder sometimes if people with Fi are more capable of resisting Fe bullshit than others who also have Fe).

    Because using social "supposed tos" does sound SFJ, it does.

    I just doubt very seriously that she has *none* of the strengths, though, that's surely an exaggeration on your part, unless she's entirely psychotic.
    I made an error in that post, I didn't mean to state that she had none of the strengths. I was mixing a real world and theoretical example. My apologies.

    Oh and she's only not got slapped thus far because her other half is popular and would get it in the neck for years afterwards. That and the girl is pitiful. You could call us enablers... it does fit. In fact my wife has given me ear ache over being too reasonable with this girl.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #162
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I always have to think - when reading this threads title - of a mum going to her son and telling him "You are a failure of typology" lol

    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #163
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    Look at Ti looking for word precision - I didn't (and I don't think anyone else did either) suggest that any particular function order is unhealthy, saying one type is worse than another, that would actually defeat the whole purpose of personality theory.

    ...but I think this does happen, all the same. An INTJ can think someone is "unhealthy" because they're so emotionally expressive. An ENFJ can think someone is "immature" or "selfish" because they have Fi rather than Fe values. Blah blah blah. The types judge each other all the time, and MBTI/Keirsey/Jungian theory is supposed to help people understand each other better, not just throw more and more blame on each other for being merely different.

    I think this may be what Jim, the OP, is complaining about.

    What I meant, though, is that I think my ex (and others) have mental or emotional problems but that doesn't mean he has "unhealthy Fe." His Fe is just fine. When he's calm and sane and not having some weird episode, his Fe is great and warm and nurturing. His instability and destructiveness is not healthy, and I don't think it's because he has an unhealthy function, he has a deeper problem.

  4. #164
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Look at Ti looking for word precision - I didn't (and I don't think anyone else did either) suggest that any particular function order is unhealthy, saying one type is worse than another, that would actually defeat the whole purpose of personality theory.

    I did say we needed definition. Many of the discussions on this forum continue because people aren't coordinating their terminology.

    Besides... it's my purpose... back off feeler... I have a dictionary and I'm not afraid to use it!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    ...but I think this does happen, all the same. An INTJ can think someone is "unhealthy" because they're so emotionally expressive. An ENFJ can think someone is "immature" or "selfish" because they have Fi rather than Fe values. Blah blah blah. The types judge each other all the time, and MBTI/Keirsey/Jungian theory is supposed to help people understand each other better, not just throw more and more blame on each other for being merely different.
    Projection is the root of all evil?

    It is generally suggested that a balanced individual has less showing of a strong preference so perhaps people nipping at each other is the human version of when dogs bark and indeed bite other dogs displaying unwanted behaviour. See the INTJ is "helping"

    Probably not a good maxim but the concept holds merit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think this may be what Jim, the OP, is complaining about.
    Totally didn't get that. Oh well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    What I meant, though, is that I think my ex (and others) have mental or emotional problems but that doesn't mean he has "unhealthy Fe." His Fe is just fine. When he's calm and sane and not having some weird episode, his Fe is great and warm and nurturing. His instability and destructiveness is not healthy, and I don't think it's because he has an unhealthy function, he has a deeper problem.
    But if you take an ENFP who's been asked his whole life to validate his opinions and choices logically, he has a score in Ti which rivals his Fi and has trouble knowing what he really wants. Isn't that partially psychological damage and also unhealthy function order (ish)?
    Last edited by Xander; 05-06-2011 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Damn formatting errors
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Why? Just curious on your thoughts.
    When you said, "if the message is brought across and understood correctly I think that function was used correctly." I thought, it's too simple, no cigar. Let's assume you're right and there's a *correct* way to use a function. I still don't see the correlation between correct function usage and ones correct understanding of your message. What if you're talking to someone that isn't using their listening ears? In that case, it wouldn't matter how articulate your delivery is and it wouldn't be fair to say that you didn't correctly use a function. Maybe you did. Maybe you didn't.

    You're making me laugh with that correct usage stuff anyway. I don't buy it.

  6. #166
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I mean.. come on, of course ENFPs have Te, it's their preferred attitude of the T function and it is where they go when they are both stressed and/or excited!
    from my experience they dont go on Te mode when they get exited.. but they do how ever tend to get exited when others use Te on subjects they are interested.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  7. #167
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Xander
    But if you take an ENFP who's been asked his whole life to validate his opinions and choices logically, he has a score in Ti which rivals his Fi and has trouble knowing what he really wants. Isn't that partially psychological damage and also unhealthy function order (ish)?
    Yes, that is unhealthy.
    Jung taught that there must be healthy differentiation... one must take preference over another.
    If someone claims to be "perfectly balanced" in their preferences,
    they don't realize it, but they are actually claiming to be mentally ill.

  8. #168
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    ^ I came to that realization with myself and it created a kind of paralysis within me so I agree completely with that statement. I'm spending some time developing my preferences and making decisions solely off of one pattern.

  9. #169
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Yes, that is unhealthy.
    Jung taught that there must be healthy differentiation... one must take preference over another.
    If someone claims to be "perfectly balanced" in their preferences,
    they don't realize it, but they are actually claiming to be mentally ill.
    LOL, All of sudden, a comment made by a MBTI instructor upon perusing my test scores makes sense now. I did test and continually test right on the T/F boarder. Definite Fi preferences though.


    On the topic; so no function could be considered unhealthy, but behavior manifestations through usage of said functions could be considered healthy/unhealthy? Am I just misinterpreting?
    BTW, I actually agree with Jim. I do believe labeling of function/behavioral manifestations as healthy/unhealthy in cognitively undisturbed people does really say more about the peeps doing the labeling.
    Even displays of shadow type should be considered healthy in appropriate situations. It is only when it begins to become a permanent state (where some sort of cognitive disruption has appeared to taken place), that I would consider it unhealthy. It would depend on context too.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  10. #170
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    MBTI points out a person's strong cognative suits, and explains how these suits can be worn within the diameter of out society, adding positively to the consensus. Any misfits are considered unhealthy in this eplanation. Doesn't mean those unhealthy person's are truely sick to the bone. They might just be the revolutionary leaders of tomorrows society.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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