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  1. #131
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    no. typology is all about how we perceive and think(make judgments of thoughts and perceptions). that does reflect on our natural communication styles in some levels, but communication is half learned and half about natural tendencies on particular ways to communicate
    That only refers to the MBTI and other cognitive styles typologies. It does not describe typology in general. Reflect was focusing on types of communication styles even if he was thinking of the MBTI or something similar.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #132
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    A communication style that is so objective and independant from what one has half-learned and from ones natural tendency I yet have to meet
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #133
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Can you have an unhealthy function?

    Would you say that an F who has internalised the function so that they are caring more about their own wants and don't tend to pick up on other's wants then that is an unhealthy F?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Can you have an unhealthy function?

    Would you say that an F who has internalised the function so that they are caring more about their own wants and don't tend to pick up on other's wants then that is an unhealthy F?
    No, just an amoral one. A T could equally be as concerned with themselves versus not givng a shit about others.

    I don't think what you've proposed here is even about functions.

  5. #135
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    No, just an amoral one. A T could equally be as concerned with themselves versus not givng a shit about others.

    I don't think what you've proposed here is even about functions.
    So being Amoral isn't unhealthy. This begs the question of what is? All I'm thinking is that without an established set of parameters for what is healthy and what is not then you can't say either with conviction no matter what system you use to describe it. Surely before anyone can judge some kind of consensus on the elements which make up "unhealthy" is needed?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    ...the corollary being that if the message is NOT brought across and understood correctly, then that function was used incorrectly?

    First of all, I really don't think personality systems are meant to be used in that kind of normative way.

    Second, how would you be able to diagnose mis-communications? Is it the sender's fault (was the function that he used unhealthy) if the other person doesn't understand? Or is it the receiver's fault? Moreover, what about different types of communication that involve functions but don't conform to the standard sender-receiver model, such as artistic expressions? Functions obviously have other uses than strict verbal communication.

    Third, how do you know which behaviors are the result of which functions? If you can't even know that, then what is the point of trying to categorize specific behaviors as good or bad uses of a function? It's all bullshit.
    Hm, those are good points. I would say that when it comes to the miscommunication and where it is occuring it could be either persons fault. Variables that get in the way are things such as the thoughts complexity, the vocabulary that one has to describe the thought (though complexity of thought might be limited to do this in the beginning), the person who's listening capacity for understanding. If we look at art, I suppose it's best to say that if the person explaining their idea to a person who asked them their motivations for creating it and what it's supposed to express, and the person speaking is trying to describe his feelings behind it, and they aren't congruent with the art itself, perhaps the person painting misperceived, barring the above variables are met. Of course, how we perceive certain things is different too, so the person listening may not be able to perceive what is being explained, and the person painting may be correct in their own right, but if we go with this logic then technically we're all right, concepts like that don't usually tend to work out so well with humans. Hm, actually, it might not be completely out of our grasp if we look at it from the perspective that we're all right. Let's say someone painted a piece of paper red, that's it, and another looks at it and says this makes me feel hot. The painter looks at it and says I was trying to make you feel cold. With this knowledge the person who was judging misjudged and the person painting misperceived. That example leads me to the concept that both could be wrong.

    I am unable to answer your first and third question mainly because I don't know. I think it has to do with trusting the person to describe, or show what they feel, or thought in the best way they know how, but we can never really know this for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    No cigar.
    Why? Just curious on your thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    no. typology is all about how we perceive and think(make judgments of thoughts and perceptions). that does reflect on our natural communication styles in some levels, but communication is half learned and half about natural tendencies on particular ways to communicate
    I guess my reasoning was that eventually we all try to express what we see and so eventually we would need to make that communication clear to those who are watching and if it doesn't make sense... Well, I talked about that in Orangey's part.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    So being Amoral isn't unhealthy. This begs the question of what is? All I'm thinking is that without an established set of parameters for what is healthy and what is not then you can't say either with conviction no matter what system you use to describe it. Surely before anyone can judge some kind of consensus on the elements which make up "unhealthy" is needed?
    I think they've already described it. It's a highly stressed state for the individual, where they're in their Jungian shadow. An ENFP acting like an STJ outside of particular situations is not an especially happy ENFP.

    I think unhealthy implies a person who is full of negative emotions, or who is in a highly stressed state, or who is forcing themselves to be something they're not. Unhealthy also implies other psychological issues like depression, anxiety, anger, et al.

  8. #138
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    you should see an entp acting like an isfj. The house has never been so tidy in all your life !
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think they've already described it. It's a highly stressed state for the individual, where they're in their Jungian shadow. An ENFP acting like an STJ outside of particular situations is not an especially happy ENFP.
    I would take exception that description; this is actually a 'healthy' way to cognitively deal with the stressed state! What would be unhealthy would be to continue the same action and expect a different result!

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I would take exception that description; this is actually a 'healthy' way to cognitively deal with the stressed state! What would be unhealthy would be to continue the same action and expect a different result!
    If you believe there's no such thing as unhealthy, that living in someone's shadow under long-term stress is okay, we're going to have to agree to disagree, because from personal experience, that is no fucking way to live, unless it's a very specific situation that needs handling.

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