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  1. #121
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Well then, why don't you set a good example and start by telling us why you are getting defensive over this word? What stake do you have in the ability to call others' behavior healthy or unhealthy without criticism?
    Ha...a good defense is a good offense, no?

    I hold no stake. You're welcome to call me healthy or unhealthy or not. You're also welcome to challenge me, as you've just done.

  2. #122
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    This particular experiment (which occured in 1973) is more complicated than that.

    Mislabeling by a medical expert is not the main fault here; the patients clearly falsified their symptoms, which was a violation of patient/doctor relationship (since the doctor cannot draw proper conclusions if the patient is falsely reporting information and actually doesn't need the help they are pretending to need).
    Thomas Szasz.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #123
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I accept everybodies opinion, but have a very clear set of opinion for my own and it would take you some time to convince of something new. I have never called someone being unhealthy or such in the way he represents the mbti functions, but I know of the problem and I am not completly guilt-free. To me it has occured that especially Fe user have a certain way of etiquette, while especially Fi user try to vote for their individuality. I sometimes have a hard time accepting the wanted uniqueness of Fi user cause it appears to me like they need to stand out of the crowd or have "an extra sausage roasted" like they say in german. On the other hand I am not dumb and want people to live their individuality aswell. It's just complicated when my infp girl comes home and tells me how the others treated her bad and I know in an instant what she did wrong and with what better strategy she could have get rid of the others, by just following some sort of felt Fe etiquette.

    I am learning to cope with that at the moment and I want to build more respect for other opinions. I am tho convinced that tho I may develop tolerance, my opinion will stay the same and if someone calls me dumb or not-open minded because I hate it to stand out of the crowd with my opinion, so be it.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Ha...a good defense is a good offense, no?

    I hold no stake. You're welcome to call me healthy or unhealthy or not. You're also welcome to challenge me, as you've just done.
    As I've explained already, it's a weak understanding of cognition that leads to labeling others as having unhealthy cognition. The OP is typology, it is clear that if a person is neurotic or delusional then that is unhealthy; however, you just can't have 'unhealthy' Fi or 'unhealthy Ni-Te'.

    An individual can like/dislike the aspects of other types or their cognitive functions; however, just because you dislike the thinking style of another individual does not an unhealthy thinking style make.

    It's a pretty simple idea, but many people seem to wish to use imagined agenda to create a destructive prose rather than addressing the technical aspects of the topic.

    The problem here is simple, you have decided that a good offense is a good defense - have you considered if it is more important to offend others leaving them hostile to you or to convey technically accurate and useful information/opinion for other people by using mutually agreed and relevant definitions and analysis?

  5. #125
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    As I've explained already, it's a weak understanding of cognition that leads to labeling others as having unhealthy cognition. The OP is typology, it is clear that if a person is neurotic or delusional then that is unhealthy; however, you just can't have 'unhealthy' Fi or 'unhealthy Ni-Te'.

    An individual can like/dislike the aspects of other types or their cognitive functions; however, just because you dislike the thinking style of another individual does not an unhealthy thinking style make.

    It's a pretty simple idea, but many people seem to wish to use imagined agenda to create a destructive prose rather than addressing the technical aspects of the topic.

    The problem here is simple, you have decided that a good offense is a good defense - have you considered if it is more important to offend others leaving them hostile to you or to convey technically accurate and useful information/opinion for other people by using mutually agreed and relevant definitions and analysis?
    Imo tho I'ld still say it's as equally bold to assume that there could be such a thing like a healthy function use, as it is bold to assume everybody is using the functions the same healthy way.

    A fierce defender of independance might say that the difference in function use is a sign of individuality and I agree that's great. But how do you approach said people when they should ask for help ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #126
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I dont think its a failure, typology is an express of cognitive preferences and as a result strengths and weaknesses, when crisis or challenges result in strengths being overtaxed and weaknesses prevailing there's no better definition of unhealthy functioning. Plus in addition to MBTI's labelling of preferences there's Jung's typology of self and shadow, possibly even his model of archetypes constellating or becoming complexes in the conscious/unconscious, to be considered too. Developmental and cultural factors will effect whether or not someone is able to perform healthily whatever their cognitive preferences.

  7. #127
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Typology is all about how one will communicate so if the message is brought across and understood correctly I think that function was used correctly.

  8. #128
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Typology is all about how one will communicate so if the message is brought across and understood correctly I think that function was used correctly.
    ...the corollary being that if the message is NOT brought across and understood correctly, then that function was used incorrectly?

    First of all, I really don't think personality systems are meant to be used in that kind of normative way.

    Second, how would you be able to diagnose mis-communications? Is it the sender's fault (was the function that he used unhealthy) if the other person doesn't understand? Or is it the receiver's fault? Moreover, what about different types of communication that involve functions but don't conform to the standard sender-receiver model, such as artistic expressions? Functions obviously have other uses than strict verbal communication.

    Third, how do you know which behaviors are the result of which functions? If you can't even know that, then what is the point of trying to categorize specific behaviors as good or bad uses of a function? It's all bullshit.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Typology is all about how one will communicate so if the message is brought across and understood correctly I think that function was used correctly.
    No cigar.

  10. #130
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Typology is all about how one will communicate so if the message is brought across and understood correctly I think that function was used correctly.
    no. typology is all about how we perceive and think(make judgments of thoughts and perceptions). that does reflect on our natural communication styles in some levels, but communication is half learned and half about natural tendencies on particular ways to communicate
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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