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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Se to me is accepting the world as it is; taking things as they are, embracing mediocrity and boredom in the process. Playing 'the game' when I already know all of the moves and possible outcomes, none of which appeal to me.
    I can understand that view. It is more a view of society than Se itself though. Se itself has no character, has no moral agenda. It is just a means of perceiving, a tendency of perceiving.

    It is hard to have an ideal and also see reality. To hold on to something that drives you while understanding and using reality without becoming cynical. I feel that is what the original quote is about. That seems the challenge for isfp.

  2. #32
    Member James W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    If you live in close contact with your inner world, it's a lot like living by the sea. You can get flooded unless you can build a structure to meet your needs. Your first instinct, however, is to build the kind of house townspeople live in, because that's the kind of shelter others will help you construct. This is precisely the kind of house that will be ruined when the tide rises. For a while you think, "I should have built a better townhouse" but gradually you reject others advice and you live without structure,
    Why not build the kind of house that will serve your actual needs? Build the kind of house that fishermen build, one the water can go through without knocking it down...
    Well developed isfp live, as it were, between the sea and the town, doing what they need to do. In consequence, their creations, their choices, their way of being...[/I]
    I think this is one of my favorite interpretations of the ISFP and how they perceive reality in terms of their Se.

    I love how Personality Types stresses the point that you should focus on developing your axillary functions in order to reach your full potential as opposed to your tertiary function, which can oftentimes mess you up completely if used incorrectly.

    I've noticed that that ISFP's can often turn things like aesthetic beauty to channel their Se, which is seems to be a hot topic for discussion in this thread. Things like tattoos, body piercings, hair dye and just the process of reinventing themselves when they feel they've done all they can do with their current style in that David Bowie kind of way. Do Fi Se users find this helps them build a stronger case of identity?

  3. #33
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James W View Post

    I love how Personality Types stresses the point that you should focus on developing your axillary functions in order to reach your full potential as opposed to your tertiary function, which can oftentimes mess you up completely if used incorrectly.
    I always liked this point that Lenore Thompson mentions, she posits that tertiary functions are often used defensively to distance an individual from self revelation, which is reached, usually, by training their secondary function on themselves.

    Although admittedly her ISFJ advice was unhelpful in my case. Turning myself into a paragon of my environment and community by recognising my place in it through Fe, is exactly the thing I need to get away from. But of course it's easy to argue that in this case I must have missed the point.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #34
    Member James W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I always liked this point that Lenore Thompson mentions, she posits that tertiary functions are often used defensively to distance an individual from self revelation, which is reached, usually, by training their secondary function on themselves.

    Although admittedly her ISFJ advice was unhelpful in my case. Turning myself into a paragon of my environment and community by recognising my place in it through Fe, is exactly the thing I need to get away from. But of course it's easy to argue that in this case I must have missed the point.
    Is there such thing as an Si Ti loop?

    I knew this one ISFJ girl who was a total wallflower. She was crazy smart but at the same time, extremely shy and had trouble expressing herself in ways that made sense to any kind of reality half the time.

    In her case, channeling that Fe would have been helpful in becoming better at learning people's expectations and influencing people to her advantage. Of course, I can only really see Ti as a problem when it becomes a case of moon logic and has no basis for the outside world. In most cases, it's just a handy form of troubleshooting and seeing the connections that others might have difficulty with.

  5. #35
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James W View Post
    In her case, channeling that Fe would have been helpful in becoming better at learning people's expectations and influencing people to her advantage. Of course, I can only really see Ti as a problem when it becomes a case of moon logic and has no basis for the outside world. In most cases, it's just a handy form of troubleshooting and seeing the connections that others might have difficulty with.
    The way INTP's go on about it, you would think it was the truth function or something...

    As for peoples expectations...I'm too aware of them. Although it probably would help me to develop Fe so as to understand where my obligations end.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #36
    Member James W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    The way INTP's go on about it, you would think it was the truth function or something...
    Hahaha. So many conspiracy theories... so little time...

    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    As for peoples expectations...I'm too aware of them. Although it probably would help me to develop Fe so as to understand where my obligations end.
    So very true. I dislike the stereotype that ISFJs are all pushovers to some degree. Knowing when your obligations end as a cool, helpful person is a great middle finger to that notion.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by James W View Post
    I think this is one of my favorite interpretations of the ISFP and how they perceive reality in terms of their Se.

    I love how Personality Types stresses the point that you should focus on developing your axillary functions in order to reach your full potential as opposed to your tertiary function, which can oftentimes mess you up completely if used incorrectly.

    I've noticed that that ISFP's can often turn things like aesthetic beauty to channel their Se, which is seems to be a hot topic for discussion in this thread. Things like tattoos, body piercings, hair dye and just the process of reinventing themselves when they feel they've done all they can do with their current style in that David Bowie kind of way. Do Fi Se users find this helps them build a stronger case of identity?
    It is a very clever analogy because you do feel in between. Aesthetics is nice because you have some control over it, and it is subjective which is freeing in a way. I seem to find purely subjective or purely objective most freeing. For different reasons. Subjective is expression and objective provides limits and guidelines to work from.

  8. #38
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James W View Post
    So very true. I dislike the stereotype that ISFJs are all pushovers to some degree. Knowing when your obligations end as a cool, helpful person is a great middle finger to that notion.
    I've quit more than a few jobs on that principal alone.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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