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Thread: Developing Fe

  1. #71
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    Srt: is it your idea to allow outside input to affect your viewpoints then?

    (sorry I am a noobie and I am interested and I don't want to have to post more pineapple pics in a lame attempt to calm down conflict.)

  2. #72
    Senior Member SRT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Srt: is it your idea to allow outside input to affect your viewpoints then?

    (sorry I am a noobie and I am interested and I don't want to have to post more pineapple pics in a lame attempt to calm down conflict.)
    Depending on the circumstances. I already moderate myself in debates or discussions because I don't like creating a situation where there's alot of negative emotion being channeled. In more drastic situations, I think it'd be more moral to set aside one's ego than to cause the destruction of a group, but that's a circumstance where I'll decide what to do in the moment. A balancing act.

  3. #73
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Also, if this Fi/Fe discussion becomes an ENFP/INFJ catfight, let it be known that I totally called it. (j/k... sorta)
    I'm not fighting with Marmie, far from it Shes a friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I just meant Fe/Fi threads have a habit of... simmering. And, for some reason, the number of ENFPs and INFJs in them is oddly disproportionate...
    I know what you are referring to. Its often the same posters. From what I have observed it seems to come out of a genuine longing to reach new insights and understandings in regards to people in their lives. Like many other things here. To me, they don't appear to be borne out of a desire to explicitly put down the other way of being, but sometimes it escalates into that implicitly as people feel a need to defend their thoughts and behaviors and to project.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRT View Post
    Would you mind elaborating on how your Fe operates?
    Ah, OP, sorry to ignore your post. I'm not the best at functions. But, I want to help you here. I wouldn't say its purely about figuring out every ramification of every action you take. That might seize you up too much. I think maybe a better approach is cultivating the art of putting yourself in other people's shoes generally, and not in an automatically oppositional role to your own actions.

    I watched this documentary recently, and they talked about the art of cultivating empathy by immersing yourself in other people's stories. I do this naturally, I have a love of hearing other people's life stories, finding out what shaped them, thinking how easily I could be them, how so much is such an accident of birth. Perhaps some sustained concentration on these things would help you in your Fe quest.

    My mother is Fe primary and she was my model (tho, I never replied to that thread.) She imparted on me concern for people, underscored that one important commonality in our shared humanity is that everyone wants love, let me know that with some thought it can be possible to create a considerate environment that nurtures everyone's growth. She's not my same type, but she has had so much understanding for me, I'm truly fortunate.

    Do you know any Fe dom in life? Maybe a deep session of primarily listening to them describe their thoughts about things that you both experienced would help you understand better, too.


    necessary caveats
    I am not trying to assert Fe is the only way to compassion or anything like that.
    There are negatives sides to Fe and to all of us who operate from that place regularly, just like with all functions/people.
    I've internalized too much from this forum, lol.
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  4. #74
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    I'm not fighting with Marmie, far from it Shes a friend.


    I know what you are referring to. Its often the same posters. From what I have observed it seems to come out of a genuine longing to reach new insights and understandings in regards to people in their lives. Like many other things here. To me, they don't appear to be borne out of a desire to explicitly put down the other way of being, but sometimes it escalates into that implicitly as people feel a need to defend their thoughts and behaviors and to project.
    Geez, I'm sorry, miss, I didn't mean you were fighting (it hasn't happened yet, which is why I "called it"). It's just, well, I get the feeling INFJs and ENFPs tend to butt heads on those threads, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the first guy to make that observation... I think Esoteric Wench was witness to some of those melees, you might want to ak her.

    In any case, yadda yadda, I'm being an insensitive moron, film at eleven. I'll just keep my trap shut to avoid derailing this thread. I do stand by what I wrote about the functions, though, I agree with the Berens model.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Geez, I'm sorry, miss, I didn't mean you were fighting (it hasn't happened yet, which is why I "called it"). It's just, well, I get the feeling INFJs and ENFPs tend to butt heads on those threads, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the first guy to make that observation... I think Esoteric Wench was witness to some of those melees, you might want to ak her.

    In any case, yadda yadda, I'm being an insensitive moron, film at eleven. I'll just keep my trap shut to avoid derailing this thread. I do stand by what I wrote about the functions, though, I agree with the Berens model.
    No worries, man. You were just making a general observation, It was not insensitive.

  6. #76
    Senior Member SRT's Avatar
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    Wow, thank you Vasilisa. I think I do alot of that too (empathizing), but more on how the person is feeling at the moment, instead of imagining how their lives have been shaped. I think this has been very helpful to me. Just one more question, I promise. Would a way to rephrase it be 'that you look at (or interact with) a group as one individual?'

    Do you know any Fe dom in life?
    I think my father is an ISFJ, but he really doesn't care to take any test on it, so I don't know for sure. Normally when we talk about these kinds of things, which is only every occasionally, he places a large emphasis on duty (to family, friends, country, etc.) and his struggles with that. Other than him, I'd imagine I know a few IRL, but not confidently enough to assume that they were.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Well I am pretty sure I am an Fi user and I have tried to develop Fe on several occasions. While in theory I understand what a wonderfully useful function it could be I have no discipline for it. The more Fe I use the closer I become to just flat out cussing people out. As a result I would sooner remove myself from a situation than try to go with it. Yet I have no problem applying my personal values in the blink of an eye.
    This is a sliver of Fe:

    • Has an outer focus that is primarily about people and their relationships.
    • Views people, events, situations, and objects in terms of their effects on people.
    • Is actively concerned for others' needs, desires, and values.
    • Establishes and maintains social conventions.



    Why would any of that induce cussing? Have you not started threads to discuss relationships? If I hold a door open or pull out a chair for a woman I am engaging in a social convention. Does that infringe on my Fi personal values? No. If it did, I wouldn't do it. I happen to personally value being a gentleman with women. I don't think I am conforming to anything. If someone tries to restrict me or get me to conform, they usually don't like the result. Lol.

    We all make decisions every single day that reflect our personal values, in one way or another. You don't have to be an FP to do it. And you certainly don't have to be an FJ to make a decision which considers the effect on someone, a group of people, or an organization.

  8. #78
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    Dear god do I have to do this? I suppose I must.

    4. The Extraverted Feeling-Type

    In so far as feeling is, incontestably, a more obvious peculiarity of feminine psychology than thinking, the most pronounced feeling-types are also to be found among women. When extraverted feeling possesses the priority we speak of an extraverted feeling-type. Examples of this type that I can call to mind are, almost without exception, women. She is a woman who follows the guiding-line of her feeling. As the result of education her feeling has become developed into an adjusted function, subject to conscious control. Except in extreme cases, feeling has a personal character, in spite of the fact that the subjective factor may be already, to a large extent, repressed. The personality appears to be adjusted in relation to objective conditions. Her feelings correspond with objective situations and general values. Nowhere is this more clearly revealed than in the so-called 'love-choice'; the 'suitable' man is loved, not another one; he is suitable not so much because he fully accords with the fundamental character of the woman -- as a rule she is quite uninformed about this -- but because [p. 449] he meticulously corresponds in standing, age, capacity, height, and family respectability with every reasonable requirement. Such a formulation might, of course, be easily rejected as ironical or depreciatory, were I not fully convinced that the love-feeling of this type of woman completely corresponds with her choice. It is genuine, and not merely intelligently manufactured. Such 'reasonable' marriages exist without number, and they are by no means the worst. Such women are good comrades to their husbands and excellent mothers, so long as husbands or children possess the conventional psychic constitution. One can feel 'correctly', however, only when feeling is disturbed by nothing else. But nothing disturbs feeling so much as thinking. It is at once intelligible, therefore, that this type should repress thinking as much as possible. This does not mean to say that such a woman does not think at all; on the contrary, she may even think a great deal and very ably, but her thinking is never sui generis; it is, in fact, an Epimethean appendage to her feeling. What she cannot feel, she cannot consciously think. 'But I can't think what I don't feel', such a type said to me once in indignant tones. As far as feeling permits, she can think very well, but every conclusion, however logical, that might lead to a disturbance of feeling is rejected from the outset. It is simply not thought. And thus everything that corresponds with objective valuations is good: these things are loved or treasured; the rest seems merely to exist in a world apart.

    But a change comes over the picture when the importance of the object reaches a still higher level. As already explained above, such an assimilation of subject to object then occurs as almost completely to engulf the subject of feeling. Feeling loses its personal character -- it becomes feeling per se; it almost seems as though the [p. 450] personality were wholly dissolved in the feeling of the moment. Now, since in actual life situations constantly and successively alternate, in which the feeling-tones released are not only different but are actually mutually contrasting, the personality inevitably becomes dissipated in just so many different feelings. Apparently, he is this one moment, and something completely different the next -- apparently, I repeat, for in reality such a manifold personality is altogether impossible. The basis of the ego always remains identical with itself, and, therefore, appears definitely opposed to the changing states of feeling. Accordingly the observer senses the display of feeling not so much as a personal expression of the feeling-subject as an alteration of his ego, a mood, in other words. Corresponding with the degree of dissociation between the ego and the momentary state of feeling, signs of disunion with the self will become more or less evident, i.e. the original compensatory attitude of the unconscious becomes a manifest opposition. This reveals itself, in the first instance, in extravagant demonstrations of feeling, in loud and obtrusive feeling predicates, which leave one, however, somewhat incredulous. They ring hollow; they are not convincing. On the contrary, they at once give one an inkling of a resistance that is being overcompensated, and one begins to wonder whether such a feeling-judgment might not just as well be entirely different. In fact, in a very short time it actually is different. Only a very slight alteration in the situation is needed to provoke forthwith an entirely contrary estimation of the selfsame object. The result of such an experience is that the observer is unable to take either judgment at all seriously. He begins to reserve his own opinion. But since, with this type, it is a matter of the greatest moment to establish an intensive feeling rapport with his environment, redoubled efforts are now required [p. 451] to overcome this reserve. Thus, in the manner of the circulus vitiosus, the situation goes from bad to worse. The more the feeling relation with the object becomes overstressed, the nearer the unconscious opposition approaches the surface.

    We have already seen that the extraverted feeling type, as a rule, represses his thinking, just because thinking is the function most liable to disturb feeling. Similarly, when thinking seeks to arrive at pure results of any kind, its first act is to exclude feeling, since nothing is calculated to harass and falsify thinking so much as feeling-values. Thinking, therefore, in so far as it is an independent function, is repressed in the extraverted feeling type. Its repression, as I observed before, is complete only in so far as its inexorable logic forces it to conclusions that are incompatible with feeling. It is suffered to exist as the servant of feeling, or more accurately its slave. Its backbone is broken; it may not operate on its own account, in accordance with its own laws, Now, since a logic exists producing inexorably right conclusions, this must happen somewhere, although beyond the bounds of consciousness, i.e. in the unconscious. Pre-eminently, therefore, the unconscious content of this type is a particular kind of thinking. It is an infantile, archaic, and negative thinking.

    So long as conscious feeling preserves the personal character, or, in other words, so long as the personality does not become swallowed up by successive states of feeling, this unconscious thinking remains compensatory. But as soon as the personality is dissociated, becoming dispersed in mutually contradictory states of feeling, the identity of the ego is lost, and the subject becomes unconscious. But, because of the subject's lapse into the unconscious, it becomes associated with the unconscious thinking -- function, therewith assisting the unconscious [p. 452] thought to occasional consciousness. The stronger the conscious feeling relation, and therefore, the more 'depersonalized,' it becomes, the stronger grows the unconscious opposition. This reveals itself in the fact that unconscious ideas centre round just the most valued objects, which are thus pitilessly stripped of their value. That thinking which always thinks in the 'nothing but' style is in its right place here, since it destroys the ascendancy of the feeling that is chained to the object.

    Unconscious thought reaches the surface in the form of irruptions, often of an obsessing nature, the general character of which is always negative and depreciatory. Women of this type have moments when the most hideous thoughts fasten upon the very objects most valued by their feelings. This negative thinking avails itself of every infantile prejudice or parallel that is calculated to breed doubt in the feeling-value, and it tows every primitive instinct along with it, in the effort to make 'a nothing but' interpretation of the feeling. At this point, it is perhaps in the nature of a side-remark to observe that the collective unconscious, i.e. the totality of the primordial images, also becomes enlisted in the same manner, and from the elaboration and development of these images there dawns the possibility of a regeneration of the attitude upon another basis.

    Hysteria, with the characteristic infantile sexuality of its unconscious world of ideas, is the principal form of neurosis with this type.

  9. #79
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Not as often as Fi, anyway. Anyone can use any of the functions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Well, if I may give my 2¢, I do think we all can access every function, though shadow functions often run a far greater risk of being used in a "negative" fashion. Berens' model, if I understand it correctly, assigns a "good side" and a "bad side" to every one of the function "slots":

    1. Leading / Dominant
    2. Supporting / Overprotective
    3. Relief / Unsettling
    4. Aspirational / Projective
    5. Opposing / Backup
    6. Critical / Discovery
    7. Deceiving / Comedic
    8. Devilish / Transformative
    Here's a discussion on the "general" use of the functions. They can fall into those archetype roles, but not necessarily. Outside of that, they are "undifferentiated", meaning either connected to our dominant world-view, or tied to our emotions and reactivity:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1538101
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  10. #80
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Dear god
    No, just Jag.

    The thread isn't about Extraverted Feeling types.

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