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  1. #21
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    I definitely get energised by "Se" being out exploring the world, living in the moment etc. but I still feel like an introvert.

    I tend to think an ESFP and an ISFP will both be energised by Fi and Se aswell, it's just a matter of where you're most at home. Given that I've been on this site for ages and still don't really get what Fi is all about probably doesn't help either.
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  2. #22
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    I'm an extravert who isn't a "people person" in the traditional sense. E/I has been *the* hardest thing for me. I can be a real chatterbox, though, talking and ranting, or talking through problems...I've found myself apologizing occasionally to people once I get started because I won't stop talking.

    The thing is though, I don't like to be constantly engaged with people, I like solitude, and I've got no problems putting up walls when I don't want to be approached. However, Eric B had an interesting post in another thread about how informing initiators (like ExxPs) may approach other people very easily, but then not necessarily want to be approached by unwanted people themselves.

    I don't think extravert means "takes all comers" or "wants to socialize all day" and definitely not in the Jungian sense. I think ExFJs are more likely to be traditionally extroverted though, IME. They really like to be around people, and ESxPs are going to be a little more extroverted than ENxPs, but maybe not as extroverted as ExFJs.

    I remember getting in trouble for talking in class or doing weird things to draw attention to myself as a child, and initiating things - like getting my friends to put on a burlesque show at a slumber party - and I'm not too sure these are INFP traits, no matter how much I might like my alone time.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I don't know if there's such a harsh line between introverts and extroverts as we like to think. There are some people who are pretty extreme in one way or another, but not everyone is like that. I consider myself pretty close on introversion/extroversion too. Sometimes people and external events really energize me, sometimes they really drain me and I just want to nap.
    I keep hearing that ISFPs are the extroverted introverts and ENFPs are the introverted extroverts, so we're just doomed to be confused.

  4. #24
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I'm an extravert who isn't a "people person" in the traditional sense. E/I has been *the* hardest thing for me. I can be a real chatterbox, though, talking and ranting, or talking through problems...I've found myself apologizing occasionally to people once I get started because I won't stop talking.

    The thing is though, I don't like to be constantly engaged with people, I like solitude, and I've got no problems putting up walls when I don't want to be approached. However, Eric B had an interesting post in another thread about how informing initiators (like ExxPs) may approach other people very easily, but then not necessarily want to be approached by unwanted people themselves.

    I remember getting in trouble for talking in class or doing weird things to draw attention to myself as a child, and initiating things - like getting my friends to put on a burlesque show at a slumber party - and I'm not too sure these are INFP traits, no matter how much I might like my alone time.
    What I was referring to there was directing (as opposed to informing) and/or structure focused, as being the ones who do not want to be approached (It's not that they never want to be, but the other other person must meet a criteria). Initiators, or In Charge (EST/ENJ) are the directives. ESF/ENP are called Coworkers or Get Things Going.

    But you're ENFP, which is neither directing, not structure focused.
    I see that when you did the Inclusion/Control/Affection profiles, you identified as Phlegmatic Sanguine in Inclusion (which is basically an ambiverted version of Get things Going), and one of two Phlegmatic blend types in Control, which would loosely fit NF. Phlegmatic is basically moderate. Hence, ambiversion on the social level, and both a democratic as well as "take 'em or leave 'em" attitude in the Control area.

    That's likely why you're not completely people-focused and get tired of them eventually.

    So the presence of ambiverted temperament variations (though not recognized in MBTI) is another thing that might blur the line between introversion and extraversion.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    What I was referring to there was directing (as opposed to informing) and/or structure focused, as being the ones who do not want to be approached (It's not that they never want to be, but the other other person must meet a criteria). Initiators, or In Charge (EST/ENJ) are the directives. ESF/ENP are called Coworkers or Get Things Going.

    But you're ENFP, which is neither directing, not structure focused.
    I see that when you did the Inclusion/Control/Affection profiles, you identified as Phlegmatic Sanguine in Inclusion (which is basically an ambiverted version of Get things Going), and one of two Phlegmatic blend types in Control, which would loosely fit NF. Phlegmatic is basically moderate. Hence, ambiversion on the social level, and both a democratic as well as "take 'em or leave 'em" attitude in the Control area.

    That's likely why you're not completely people-focused and get tired of them eventually.

    So the presence of ambiverted temperament variations (though not recognized in MBTI) is another thing that might blur the line between introversion and extraversion.
    So are you saying I'm actually xNFP, a real ambivert in personality...or just that I'm an ENFP with ambiverted temperament?

  6. #26
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I do know a lot of people and tend to call many of them "friends" though strictly speaking most of them are more acquaintances - I only have a handful I consider really close. And I also know that being an "extrovert" doesn't automatically mean you have lots of friends. But it's still odd how this seems to happen.
    i have lots of... tiers? of friends? like i have my best friend, who knows me nearly as well as i do. then a handful of very close friends - maybe like 4 of those - then good friends from college and high school... maybe like 10 of those... people i talk to on facebook and/or could easily go grab a drink with - then regular friends... people i know somewhat well and i'd be happy to spend a few hours with but we're not super close... then friend-acquaintances... then actual acquaintances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yeah, I think this is approaching the true distinction. An extravert doesn't necessarily have to be the people-pleasing type that everyone imagines; it's more that they will feel like they're flailing and stressed out if they don't have regular engagement with the external world. So while introvert A and extravert B might socialize equally little, extravert B is going to feel more like shit about it than introvert A.
    yeah i totally agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    With shy extroverts, I think once engaged fail to disengage easily. Where as with myself, I can engage easily, but fail to keep it up for an extended period. I have many many acquaintances because I'm always friendly. I have few close friends, however, because honestly, I'm just not that sociable.


    i tend not to keep many close friends either though because i am sort of picky :/ like i love lots of people but hanging out with them for long periods of time is a different story. it's easier for me to hang out with lots of different people throughout the week than to hang out with the same few people unless they are people i really really like - in which case i could easily spend a whole week just with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I don't think extravert means "takes all comers" or "wants to socialize all day" and definitely not in the Jungian sense.
    agreed.

    i actually am not very much a fan of initiating contact with others but once i am friends with others i do tend to initiate projects / games / etc. i like when people initiate contact with me, but that doesn't necessarily mean i want to talk to them for very long. same thing as before... i just have a high social stimulation need/tolerance. it doesn't extend into the realms of me (a) not needing solitude or (b) liking everyone.

    haha, introvert/extravert test... would you rather be stuck in a mansion for a week with a big group of people, with no privacy (minus the bathroom of course), or alone in the house for a week, no social contact whatsoever allowed?

    (joking... i do not know how accurate that would be lol)

  7. #27
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    I would be very depressed with no social contact what-so-ever allowed, I think, for an entire week...like if I couldn't even chat with people on-line.

    Then again, if the house was really cool, and I had a lot of books, and it was in this really nice natural area with trees and a lake, river or ocean near-by, being alone wouldn't be bad. I might actually get more writing done.

    Neither one of those things sounds especially pleasant, but being in a mansion for a week with a bunch of people does sound kind of like an adventure. Of course, I'm imagining that the mansion is haunted or a murder has to be solved, which would be even better if all those people were around.

    /crazy

  8. #28
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    I'd definitely choose to be alone for a week at a mansion, no contest at all. I actually think that'd be pretty fun for me, to have a whole mansion to myself for a week. lol.

    I just remembered, the psychologist Marti Laney suggests this test for people who are uncertain:

    If you don't feel like you fit one side more than the other, even by 51% to 49%, then ask yourself this question: If there is an emergency do you tend to stand still and feel somewhat shutdown or in slow motion? If you have a standstill reaction to stress more often, then you are probably an introvert. In a crisis do you tend to move your body immediately and feel like taking action, maybe without pausing to think? Then you are probably an extrovert if you react with movement. Under stress we can experience our innate temperament.

  9. #29
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blankpages View Post
    Shyness is social discomfort or anxiety. Introversion is about preference. It's a personality trait that involves a preference for relatively less stimulation and interaction, and relatively more internal processing of ideas. You can be both, and they often do go together, but not always.
    This is important to remember. Introversion is not shyness, but shy extroverts can confuse themselves as introverts because they have a social anxiety which makes interaction unpleasant, and so they avoid it. A non-shy introvert can occasionally appear very outgoing in a social situation, often for short bursts (this is my ISFJ mom). You'll hear the focus of their thoughts, however, in their expressions. Then, their mindset will become apparent.

    I/E is about the focus of your mind. The "roles" of your cognitive processes can clue you into what is dominant. The aux function is usually supportive of the focus of the dom function....for example, in a recent Fi thread, there was some discussion of how Fi in the aux position is more people-focused than a Fi-dom's Fi. This is because it's supporting extroverted aims. It helps determine meaning & value in an external context as viewed through a Pe mindset. Pe in the aux position instead gives a context to & finds a fit in the external world for the internal valuations of Fi, which means mental concepts of the ideal are often focused on over literal people. Think about this in terms of any type & you'll be able to "see" the focus of people despite their social demeanors.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by blankpages View Post
    I'd definitely choose to be alone for a week at a mansion, no contest at all. I actually think that'd be pretty fun for me, to have a whole mansion to myself for a week. lol.

    I just remembered, the psychologist Marti Laney suggests this test for people who are uncertain:
    People who immediately react or take charge are extroverts? Or just types with more Se or Te?

    Anyway, by that definition I'd be an extravert.

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