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  1. #71
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
    Huh? That is what I said.



    I said this, too.


    Yep.
    Sorry, I was not diagreeing with you but clarifying some stuff; mainly about how not all feeling is so subjective (Fe vs. Fi), and that it isn't about fluffy emotions. Having gone back and read your post more carefully, however, I skimmed the explanation of "emotional on our binary scale," and now see that you weren't talking about happy/ sad/ angry emotions. I feel kind of lame for being such a skimmer. Oh, literacy...

    "OMG I FEEEEEEEEEL SO INTENSELY ABOUT EVERYTHING OMG OMG OMG GET ME A XANAX" -Priam (ENFP impersonation)

  2. #72
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
    They are not necessarily more emotional, but aren't they more subjective? I think this is where the idea of the touchy-feely sensitive Fs sneaks in. The values that the Feeler taps into leads the F to decide something not on an objective basis but according to how others would feel regardless of what is being done, objectively. Since it's not to do with logic, its emotional on our binary scale. All it means is that they have more of a pulse on shared values, which may be fluffy or murderous.
    Subjectivity is a GOOD thing though--to make really, really good decisions one needs to consider the objective and subjective viewpoints. All too often businesses, which usually have a Thinking culture, make decisions without considering Feeling/subjective criteria such as:
    • Do we have buy-in, as in, will those who have to do the work actually carry out our plans?
    • Does this decision gel with our values? Think of how nurses, a profession with an archetype for Feeling, are overstressed now by not being able to effectively act on their value of caring for patients as individuals
    • Who else should be included in the decision?
    • Where do loyalties lay? Remember "New Coke"???
    • Even if this appears cost-effective on paper, will the impact on morale, loyalty, service, etc. actually decrease its efficiencies? We saw this all the time with corporate downsizings


    Thinking types have feelings; Feeling types can think. It isn't about emotions but about how we make decisions. One thing I use with parents is their first reaction when a child asks for an exception to a rule, as in, "Can I watch an extra half hour of TV today because I had 3 tests at school..." The T's usually are first inclined to stick to the rule but may reconsider for the sake of meeting the child's needs. The F's usually are first inclined to break the rule, stepping into the shoes of the child and feeling the exhaustion, but may reconsider for the sake of consistency.

    It's where we go first in decisions that counts, because many Feeling types have been inundated with logical decision making structures that can fuzz up their true preference. And, many Thinking types are working on effective problem solving strategies, which usually take into account the views of all players...

    edcoaching

  3. #73
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    T outputs either true or false
    F outputs either good or bad

  4. #74
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    It is true that they aren't more emotional or less rational, by definition.

    However, there is a strong general trend of Fs being more expressive of their emotions, and therefore seeming more emotional, in my experience. (Of course as with anything there are exceptions).

  5. #75
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    ^agree. Fs are more emotional because they're more consciously tuned to value judgments.

  6. #76
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    ^agree. Fs are more emotional because they're more consciously tuned to value judgments.
    How does being consciously tuned to value judgments make one more emotional and/or more expressive of emotions? I honestly want to know, because in theory the feeling function can be as cold and emotionally detached as the thinking function (at least that's what Jung says), it only just operates differently and with different criteria, as everyone here has been saying. So where is this connection between feeling as a decision-making process and "emotion" (or affect)?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #77
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    How does being consciously tuned to value judgments make one more emotional and/or more expressive of emotions? I honestly want to know, because in theory the feeling function can be as cold and emotionally detached as the thinking function (at least that's what Jung says), it only just operates differently and with different criteria, as everyone here has been saying. So where is this connection between feeling as a decision-making process and "emotion" (or affect)?
    In theory, sure. In practice, I bet you read the Fs in your life as being more emotional/less coldly rational than the Ts. I sure do, almost without exception...actually now that I'm thinking about it...completely without exception, as far as I can remember (and for the people whose types I'm reasonably sure of).

  8. #78
    Senior Member Leysing's Avatar
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    Values have many emotions connected to them.

  9. #79
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leysing View Post
    Values have many emotions connected to them.
    Principles, a more "T" concept, also can have emotions attached. And, there are all kinds of emotions and manners including brusqueness and dismissiveness that affect how messages are received, not just happiness and tears.

    Introversion and Extraversion have an awful lot to do with the amount of emotion displayed. As an introverted Intuitive with Extraverted Feeling, I can often hold my emotions just fine in public venues and wait until I'm with those I want to discuss the problems with before I vent. Occasionally colleagues who observe this wonder if I prefer Thinking. I don't but I've been in the world long enough to know when it's a good idea not to display emotion. I know Thinkers who haven't learned the same lesson and are likely to display emotions through the tenacity of their arguments if nothing else.

    And, ISTPs and INTPs are usually seen as the most objective of the types, as if they stand back and observe everything that is going on in a detached way. They can come across as less emotional than the other 14 types...

    edcoaching

  10. #80
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    How does being consciously tuned to value judgments make one more emotional and/or more expressive of emotions? I honestly want to know, because in theory the feeling function can be as cold and emotionally detached as the thinking function (at least that's what Jung says), it only just operates differently and with different criteria, as everyone here has been saying. So where is this connection between feeling as a decision-making process and "emotion" (or affect)?
    if you're consciously thinking about something being 'bad', you'll be much more likely to have an emotional reaction than if you think of something as 'false'.

    example: when i solve a hard computer science problem, i figure out a few lines of code that hold 'true' to what my assignment was. but i don't react emotionally until i decide that it's 'good' that i solved the problem.

    bleh, it's impossible to completely separate thinking and feeling anyway.

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