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  1. #111
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcea Rosea View Post
    Another book quoatation about Thinking and Feeling

    Building Blocks of Personality Type by L.Haas & M.Hunziker
    p.21

    A preference for feeling does not have anything to do with emotions. Feeling types are netiher more nor less inclined to be emotional than Thinking types.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Personal, on the other hand means involved within the person itself, which is pure emotion by definition. Thus, personal and emotional are to be equated.
    .
    So you disagree with what L.Haas & M.Hunziker write in their book about Feeling not being any more emotional than thinking types?
    Last edited by alcea rosea; 07-08-2008 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Typo corrected, again.

  2. #112
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    I disagree with him.

    Maybe they're not necessarily outwardly emotional (as in the case of an I_F_, especially a P) but they're more emotional.
    we fukin won boys

  3. #113
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    I disagree with him.

    Maybe they're not necessarily outwardly emotional (as in the case of an I_F_, especially a P) but they're more emotional.
    What reason do you have for this? Why are they more emotional (even if not outwardly) where thinking types are not?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #114
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Objective means, outside of the person, as the word objective is used in relation to the person obviously because cognitive functions are meant to depict the inner processes of thought of the individual. The term object itself denotes it. To be within the person obviously means personal, and outside to be impersonal. How is it possible to make objective decisions in a non-logical fashion, granted that we have excluded the human element? If one is to be objective, one ought to use impersonal means of reasoning or laws of reasoning which we refer to as logic. Thus, objective and impersonal are to be equated.


    Personal, on the other hand means involved within the person itself, which is pure emotion by definition. Thus, personal and emotional are to be equated.

    T people are not 100% logical because there is no such thing as a pure Thinking type, and F people aren't 100% emotional because there is no such thing as a pure Feeling type.
    I don't see it as objective vs. personal. I see the Feeling function as accounting for the fact that people aren't logical, so using logic in decisions doesn't necessarily lead to optimal results. It is rational to consider the relative worth of different ideas, viewpoints, and how others might react. Feeling types can do that without emotions being involved.

    And there are pure T's and F's--we call them immature idiots. Mature people figure out that if/then and cause/effect reasoning AND considering what it takes to create buy-in is the best way to reason...
    edcoaching

  5. #115
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Objective means, outside of the person, as the word objective is used in relation to the person obviously because cognitive functions are meant to depict the inner processes of thought of the individual. The term object itself denotes it. To be within the person obviously means personal, and outside to be impersonal. How is it possible to make objective decisions in a non-logical fashion, granted that we have excluded the human element? If one is to be objective, one ought to use impersonal means of reasoning or laws of reasoning which we refer to as logic. Thus, objective and impersonal are to be equated.


    Personal, on the other hand means involved within the person itself, which is pure emotion by definition. Thus, personal and emotional are to be equated.

    T people are not 100% logical because there is no such thing as a pure Thinking type, and F people aren't 100% emotional because there is no such thing as a pure Feeling type.

    Here we go again. By the definition of objective you've mentioned, all extraverted functions are objective, including objective feeling.

  6. #116
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    If thinking and feeling are different modes of perceiving, can I "cop a think"?
    Yes, quite easily. It is done all the time. It got me through organic chemistry lab.

  7. #117
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    Here we go again. By the definition of objective you've mentioned, all extraverted functions are objective, including objective feeling.
    No, by his definition, no mental process is objective at all.
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  8. #118
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    I don't see it as objective vs. personal. I see the Feeling function as accounting for the fact that people aren't logical, so using logic in decisions doesn't necessarily lead to optimal results. It is rational to consider the relative worth of different ideas, viewpoints, and how others might react. Feeling types can do that without emotions being involved.
    No, they can't. Even if we say that emotion doesn't necessarily emanate from the feeling functions, meaning that Fi and Fe don't directly cause a person to feel or experience emotion, then we have to at least say that emotion is used as part of the judging criteria. Where Ti and Te will use logic as the standard while processing decisions (sans emotion), feeling must then use emotional criteria in a similar fashion. If feeling doesn't use logic to produce decisions, then what is it that it uses? Both processes take in "objective" and emotional "subjective" data, but both processes do not handle the data in the same way. Of course, it is simple to say that feelers use a system of values, but where are these values derived from? If the values are used to determine the "worth" of something (good, bad, like, don't like), and logic is not used as the standard of determining whether or not something is good (since that's not its purpose), then the basis for the values has to be emotional. Where all of this seems to get fuzzy is finding an explanation for why a person would behave (and not necessarily display this behavior) more emotionally, or allow emotion more readily, just because their feeling function uses a value standard that is based on emotion. I imagine that once this standard is determined, the feeling function would be more like a good/bad sorting machine. There would be no need to actually "feel" after that.
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  9. #119
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    If the values are used to determine the "worth" of something (good, bad, like, don't like), and logic is not used as the standard of determining whether or not something is good (since that's not its purpose), then the basis for the values has to be emotional. Where all of this seems to get fuzzy is finding an explanation for why a person would behave (and not necessarily display this behavior) more emotionally, or allow emotion more readily, just because their feeling function uses a value standard that is based on emotion. I imagine that once this standard is determined, the feeling function would be more like a good/bad sorting machine. There would be no need to actually "feel" after that.
    If people who prefer Feeling contend that reason, based on something other than logic, is the basis for their choosing values (yes it's subjective to think about how others will react but it's still not emotional) then can Thinking types declare that it's emotion?
    edcoaching

  10. #120
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    This would suggest that the experience of emotion is outside of any cognitive process that we have control of (namely, the judging functions of thinking and feeling). As such, it is correct to say that the feeling processes are, in essence, no more emotional than the thinking processes. However, now we run into the problem of figuring out why feelers are characterized as more emotional than thinkers, both in our own experiences and in the type descriptions. Could it be because the feeling processes are less able (or simply don't desire to) than the thinking processes to repress and control emotions, even as these emotions emanate from outside of the feeling functions themselves?

    Okay, I think I've sufficiently confused myself for today...
    The answer to this question is as follows; Feeling is a conscious assessment of emotion. Because it is focused on emotion, it attracts the passions to the psyche and therefore renders all of it higher on emotional content.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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