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  1. #91
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    yes, that's what i'm saying.

    Ni is a perceiving function that unconsciously processes data in an abstract way, focused on the "internal standard", which is basically your current state of mind/current goals. (as opposed to Ne, which focuses on data from the external environment without filtering it through goals)

    since introverted perceiving functions are goal oriented, and Fs focus more on value judgments than truth judgments, Ni will act differently with Fe than with Te. the "internal standard" is different.
    The definition of an introverted intuition is set in stone as it is for all the functions. Ni doesn't really act differently, we just use what data comes in differently. Ni's product is where discrepancies and confusion come in. The functions are designed to be abstract specifically for the sake of avoiding confusion: If it's not one function, it must be the other, if not that, the next, etc.

    It's come to my attention that a lot of typists (not just you dude -- even me sometimes I forget) blur the line between function use and function product.

    The functions themselves are nothing but a skeleton. Personality (or whatever it is typology covers) is extruded through the functions - it's not comprised entirely by them.
    we fukin won boys

  2. #92
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    The definition of an introverted intuition is set in stone as it is for all the functions. Ni doesn't really act differently, we just use what data comes in differently. Ni's product is where discrepancies and confusion come in. The functions are designed to be abstract specifically for the sake of avoiding confusion: If it's not one function, it must be the other, if not that, the next, etc.

    It's come to my attention that a lot of typists (not just you dude -- even me sometimes I forget) blur the line between function use and function product.

    The functions themselves are nothing but a skeleton. Personality (or whatever it is typology covers) is extruded through the functions - it's not comprised entirely by them.
    that's what i was trying to say, but i guess it wasn't quite clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvereX View Post
    Fe is much more different than Fi
    so......
    we should consider it on a more specific plane
    the functions

    F and T is too vague
    F and T is not too vague.

    feeling is conscious judgment of good/bad. thinking is conscious judgment of true/false. the definitions are clear.

    introverted uses current mindset, extroverted uses current environment. but that's just a further specification.

  3. #93
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    that's what i was trying to say, but i guess it wasn't quite clear.
    Then whether or not one uses Ni, Ne, Si, or Se is irrelevant to the issue of how Te, Ti, Fe, and Fi function in essence.
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  4. #94
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    F and T is not too vague.

    feeling is conscious judgment of good/bad. thinking is conscious judgment of true/false. the definitions are clear.

    introverted uses current mindset, extroverted uses current environment. but that's just a further specification.
    right
    which is why i think it should be included
    from the looks of it, you all have beat me to it

    eh
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  5. #95
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Then whether or not one uses Ni, Ne, Si, or Se is irrelevant to the issue of how Te, Ti, Fe, and Fi function in essence.
    well the functions are all clearly and separately defined. and they all work exactly how they're defined.

    but the actual output of Ni is gonna be different from an INTJ to an INFJ because the internal standard is different. (true with extroverted functions as well)

    the point i was trying to make is that being an F doesn't directly make you more emotional. but since being an F affects perception (which includes emotion), it indirectly makes you more likely to be emotional.

  6. #96
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Feeling is rational as in rationale -- the reasoning. You're right in that respect.

    In the same respect, conscious decision making doesn't have to be rational as in logical.
    Until someone can come up with another source for the Feeling functions' values, I fail to see how F does not equal emotional.
    It takes another step, however, to say that F's basis in emotion (the emotional basis of values) outputs more emotional behavior. Because someone holds a value system that is based in emotion doesn't mean that any given decision that they make using said system will be emotional/create an emotional reaction.
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  7. #97
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    well the functions are all clearly and separately defined. and they all work exactly how they're defined.

    but the actual output of Ni is gonna be different from an INTJ to an INFJ because the internal standard is different. (true with extroverted functions as well)

    the point i was trying to make is that being an F doesn't directly make you more emotional. but since being an F affects perception (which includes emotion), it indirectly makes you more likely to be emotional.
    But if being an F affects perception, then perception will act differently for F's than for T's.

    If we're talking about the output of perception, then it is not perception that creates the difference, but T or F. So if someone is an F, then that is the factor that directly influences the output, making it different from T. So yes, it is being an F that directly makes one more emotional.
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  8. #98
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    But if being an F affects perception, then perception will act differently for F's than for T's.

    If we're talking about the output of perception, then it is not perception that creates the difference, but T or F. So if someone is an F, then that is the factor that directly influences the output, making it different from T. So yes, it is being an F that directly makes one more emotional.
    i don't know how you're defining perception.

    the way i'm using it is this -- everything that is not deductive good/bad or true/false judgments is perception.

    perception is a storage system, an input system, an engine for induction and comparison, gut feelings, hunches, etc.

    i'm having a hard time explaining this point, but i'll try again...

    Ni is defined as abstract perception focused on an internal standard. this holds true for both INTJs and INFJs. but the internal standard itself (which is stored in Ni), will be different for INTJs and INFJs. so their Nis will have different outputs. (when i'm using the word output, i mean the actual output of the specific function Ni BEFORE it gets sent to a judging function)

    T and F do not directly cause emotion. they are just pure deductive reasoning.

  9. #99
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    i don't know how you're defining perception.

    the way i'm using it is this -- everything that is not deductive good/bad or true/false judgments is perception.

    perception is a storage system, an input system, an engine for induction and comparison, gut feelings, hunches, etc.

    i'm having a hard time explaining this point, but i'll try again...

    Ni is defined as abstract perception focused on an internal standard. this holds true for both INTJs and INFJs. but the internal standard itself (which is stored in Ni), will be different for INTJs and INFJs. so their Nis will have different outputs. (when i'm using the word output, i mean the actual output of the specific function Ni BEFORE it gets sent to a judging function)

    T and F do not directly cause emotion. they are just pure deductive reasoning.
    But if we don't account for the difference in "internal standard" by saying that the T or F caused it, then why are the Ni's different? They must have different internal standards directly because of the preference for F or T.
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  10. #100
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    yes, T and F directly affect the internal standard. i guess we got caught up in semantics

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