Ne, then Si OR Si, then Ne

[strychnine]

How do you tell which order you use them in?
I.e. which one is more preferred, 'stronger', influences your thoughts more, etc. Is Ne subservient to Si, or v/v.

Is it something like: when you are exposed to something new, does it remind you of a past experience (Si), or does it occur to you that it fits a pattern (Ne)?

When something 'reminds' you of a past experience (Si, as above)... can that include seeing how the present thing is analogous to the past thing?
(Is that considered 'reminding' (Si), or is it something else (not Si)?)

For example, I was just reading someone's post about how they make decisions, and it 'reminded' me instantly of graphs used to represent relative volatility of components in mixtures (or just 'some random chemistry thing' to most of you lols). I hesitate to use the word 'reminded' in this case, because the 'concept' represented by that image is ever-present for me (not temporally distant/removed). It's not anchored in the past, so I wouldn't call it a past experience.
...I'm supposed to be SeNi (ISFP), but I can't find Ni in myself... unless Ni is responsible for the 'reminding' described in the chemistry example. And even that seems SiNi and not SeNi.


Any input on how to determine whether one's Si or one's Ne is more preferred, is much appreciated. (I don't think I'm an Si or Ne type necessarily, I'm just curious.)

In general, I am looking for thoughts on anything I said above! (And other things, if you're so inclined, lol)

If possible, I would also like to hear from Si people as to what it 'feels like' when a present experience reminds them of a past one.

Any/all input is appreciated from anyone!

 

[INTP]

by looking if strongest J function is oriented extraverted or introverted. stronger Je means that P = I(in this case Si) and stronger Ji means that P = E(in this case Ne).

you know those functions come more to conscious when you grow up and if you were born 89(like your nick suggests) its totally possible that you havent developed much tert function yet. also since Ni works pretty unconsciously(does the processing in unconscious, but when its processed the thing just pops into conscious), so it might be just hard to identify it in yourself. Ni is when you just understand some big picture out of the blue, like eureka! like you just understand something, even if you would be unable to explain it properly. when its in tert position, it might be about negative things quite often.

 

[strychnine]

by looking if strongest J function is oriented extraverted or introverted. stronger Je means that P = I(in this case Si) and stronger Ji means that P = E(in this case Ne).

This is true.

you know those functions come more to conscious when you grow up and if you were born 89(like your nick suggests) its totally possible that you havent developed much tert function yet. also since Ni works pretty unconsciously(does the processing in unconscious, but when its processed the thing just pops into conscious), so it might be just hard to identify it in yourself. Ni is when you just understand some big picture out of the blue, like eureka! like you just understand something, even if you would be unable to explain it properly. when its in tert position, it might be about negative things quite often.

I was born in 90 (89 in my username is meaningless). I never really come to understand things out of the blue. I can usually explain why I understand something. Strangely, I relate more to Ne than Ni.

 

[INTP]

Se + Ni can look like Ne at times, but i dont think its Ne you are using, imo its just Ni putting things together that you gather with Se

 

[strychnine]

Se + Ni can look like Ne at times, but i dont think its Ne you are using, imo its just Ni putting things together that you gather with Se

Ok then. So now you're saying I do have Ni?

 

[INTP]

Ok then. So now you're saying I do have Ni?

ISFP = Fi Se Ni Te

 

[strychnine]

ISFP = Fi Se Ni Te

ORLY?

I was responding to when you said I hadn't developed my tert function yet. Before backpedaling and saying, oh now you do use Ni.

Also, I am guessing you only read the first few lines of the OP.

 

[skylights]

i'm not great at understanding the S functions, but i can explain Ne and maybe some Ni a little bit

my Ne links with Si, but i know it's Ne-driven because it's abstract connection that fuels the process, as opposed to concrete information assessment. give me a term - "apple" and it conjures: image of ripe red apples dangling in orchard trees in the sun with blue sky and rolling light green hills and the smell of caramel in the air, reminds me of a song i love that makes me a little sad, reminds me of someone i've loved, that someone reminds me of how i've been wanting to go to the beach, the beach makes me think salty air, salty air to this perfume i have, perfume to where i was sitting at the counter today playing with a bottle of perfume talking to my dad and mom, dad and mom link to home, home links to moss, moss links to periwinkles, periwinkles link to my walk to school... and so on forever and ever.

i know it's more Ne than Si because the Si bits come in "flashes" - they're not well-defined in terms of what actually was there, but the "important" things - the feeling, the meaning of the situation - stands out. and the connections. Ne feels like link-link-link-link-link-link-link. many of those things involve Si elements, but past-present comparison is not occurring so much as simple memory linking. (i think it's super important to emphasize that memory and Si are two really different things - most functions do require memory. Si is about distinguishing concrete differences between two situations - most often applied to past and present, and therefore associated with memory.)

whereas Ni, assuming i understand it correctly, is more like distillation - a Se observation in the present "plugs" into an overall hypothesis of how the world works. for example, you observe that a tree is bearing apples. that plugs into the concept of life-new life. so then you can take that elsewhere and apply it to other things: for example, a human woman will have a baby. life-new life. you can expect that other plants will bear new life too. so i think that's sort of how Ni "foretelling" works - because Ni users trace observations back to general patterns that are universally applicable. then they just apply them in places where the pattern hasn't run to completion yet, but they can see the end already because they know the end pattern.

i tend to think of Ni as trying to find the one pattern that explains everything by boiling everything down as much as possible. whereas Ne tries to find the one pattern that explains everything by linking everything as much as possible.

 

[Thalassa]

In regards to the question, it's fairly simple to determine if your Ne or Si is stronger, because if you have stronger Ne you will have more of a strength in things which require "breadth" (i.e. tying together different subjects or being a "jack of all trades") and if you have stronger Si you will have more of a strength in things which require "depth" and detail (i.e. being extremely knowledgable down to the last little seemingly petty thing about a favorite subject, being an "expert" in a very particular field...or being an obsessive collector of a very particular thing, et al).

If you reflect upon your youth (even easier if you're still quite young...say late teens to early twenties) because one or the other will also be the root of your anxieties if it's a weaker function.

People with Si anxieties (while still very young) will have fears of getting stuck somewhere or in some way, and exaggerate the negatives of being surrounded by "conventional" people...yet as their Si develops, as they grow a bit older, they may come to appreciate their Si, and it can even show up in the form of giving them fears about health or safety.

People with Ne anxieties (while still very young) will be very hesitant to trust anything new, different, or strange, and may be quite upset by people who embrace those things with or without discretion. Yet as these people grow older, they can start seeing expanding possibilities as a positive thing, and ironically their anxieties about health and safety can look similar to the person with stronger Ne.

 

[INTP]

ORLY?

I was responding to when you said I hadn't developed my tert function yet. Before backpedaling and saying, oh now you do use Ni.

Also, I am guessing you only read the first few lines of the OP.

you still have Ni, even if its not well developed yet.. its the same as you had Se when you were 4, even tho you havent developed it much yet

 

[Thalassa]

Also, Si is a more linear thought process.

 

[amazingdatagirl]

For example, I was just reading someone's post about how they make decisions, and it 'reminded' me instantly of graphs used to represent relative volatility of components in mixtures (or just 'some random chemistry thing' to most of you lols). I hesitate to use the word 'reminded' in this case, because the 'concept' represented by that image is ever-present for me (not temporally distant/removed). It's not anchored in the past, so I wouldn't call it a past experience.

If you are seeing unique relationships based on stored images then your Ne is used preferentially. Si sensors (ESxJ or ISxJ) have the Ne relationships hardwired. They do not typically recognize "new" connections.

Honestly, I think that it is difficult to diagnose Ni/Ne based on a single example. Ni dominants want to see Te/Fe events that confirm their intuitive hunch. Ne is continuously scanning the environment to identify new abstract relationships. A Ne user may be forced to single out a single instance within a vast spiderweb of intuitive ideas.

 

[INTP]

Also, Si is a more linear thought process.

id say that its the Je function of Si user that is linear and Si is just working as a slave of that Je. its bit different on for example INTP, i dont see my Si as linear in any way, its more of an snapshots here and there. like think of eeg controller that you can control what comes on your screen from your computer, well the computer is my head and screen is my mental image and feelings from some exact moment and they pop in and out

 

[Noon]

edit:

This post is so freaking long.

I'm going to re-format.

 

[strychnine]

i'm not great at understanding the S functions, but i can explain Ne and maybe some Ni a little bit

my Ne links with Si, but i know it's Ne-driven because it's abstract connection that fuels the process, as opposed to concrete information assessment. give me a term - "apple" and it conjures: image of ripe red apples dangling in orchard trees in the sun with blue sky and rolling light green hills and the smell of caramel in the air, reminds me of a song i love that makes me a little sad, reminds me of someone i've loved, that someone reminds me of how i've been wanting to go to the beach, the beach makes me think salty air, salty air to this perfume i have, perfume to where i was sitting at the counter today playing with a bottle of perfume talking to my dad and mom, dad and mom link to home, home links to moss, moss links to periwinkles, periwinkles link to my walk to school... and so on forever and ever.

Thanks very much for this skylights! So I guess Ne is responsible for the mental 'jumps', as opposed to Si? Si would be more like looking at the apple and thinking, "huh, this one looks more rotten than the apple I saw last week". Yes?

i know it's more Ne than Si because the Si bits come in "flashes" - they're not well-defined in terms of what actually was there, but the "important" things - the feeling, the meaning of the situation - stands out. and the connections. Ne feels like link-link-link-link-link-link-link. many of those things involve Si elements, but past-present comparison is not occurring so much as simple memory linking. (i think it's super important to emphasize that memory and Si are two really different things - most functions do require memory. Si is about distinguishing concrete differences between two situations - most often applied to past and present, and therefore associated with memory.)

Thanks for the reminder that Si =/= memory.
I guess you don't have much access to Si without Ne driving it?

whereas Ni, assuming i understand it correctly, is more like distillation - a Se observation in the present "plugs" into an overall hypothesis of how the world works. for example, you observe that a tree is bearing apples. that plugs into the concept of life-new life. so then you can take that elsewhere and apply it to other things: for example, a human woman will have a baby. life-new life. you can expect that other plants will bear new life too. so i think that's sort of how Ni "foretelling" works - because Ni users trace observations back to general patterns that are universally applicable. then they just apply them in places where the pattern hasn't run to completion yet, but they can see the end already because they know the end pattern.

i tend to think of Ni as trying to find the one pattern that explains everything by boiling everything down as much as possible. whereas Ne tries to find the one pattern that explains everything by linking everything as much as possible.

Interesting. I am guessing that with Ni there is more to the new life analogy than the analogy itself? Namely that they can often see the end of the pattern with certainty.

It sounds like Ni tends towards 1, and Ne tends towards infinity, which in the end are derivatives of the same thing I guess, because they ideally lead to full understanding. Ne sounds like 'all is one'. I suppose that's why they are similar, as I've learned in that other thread.

In regards to the question, it's fairly simple to determine if your Ne or Si is stronger, because if you have stronger Ne you will have more of a strength in things which require "breadth" (i.e. tying together different subjects or being a "jack of all trades") and if you have stronger Si you will have more of a strength in things which require "depth" and detail (i.e. being extremely knowledgable down to the last little seemingly petty thing about a favorite subject, being an "expert" in a very particular field...or being an obsessive collector of a very particular thing, et al).

Interesting, thanks. This might be a Pi/Pe thing in general too. (I certainly can't linger on one subject for very long, typology is the sole exception so far lol.) It sounds like Ne is inter-context, and Si is depth within one context (intra-).

Thanks also for the comments about the fears.

 

[Thalassa]

Interesting, thanks. This might be a Pi/Pe thing in general too. (I certainly can't linger on one subject for very long, typology is the sole exception so far lol.) It sounds like Ne is inter-context, and Si is depth within one context (intra-).

Thanks also for the comments about the fears.

Yes, it is a Pi/Pe thing...except that Si users are even more likely than Ni users to be these very specified experts of facts on a particular topic or collectors, although Ni users can have a similar single minded quality in some instances. I'll never forget rolling my eyes at an INTJ who I otherwise consider to be quite intelligent saying "why do people talk about politics and have personal blogs on this site? this is a typology site, we should talk about typology, go to a different forum for those things to talk about those things." To me as an Ne user I'm like "who the fuck cares? why does everything have to be 'on topic'? Different subjects interconnect! It's all relevant!" (well maybe not ALL of it, but most of it )

I think it's quite possible you're an ISFP, especially if you're sure you have Fi.

 

[strychnine]

If you are seeing unique relationships based on stored images then your Ne is used preferentially. Si sensors (ESxJ or ISxJ) have the Ne relationships hardwired. They do not typically recognize "new" connections.

Honestly, I think that it is difficult to diagnose Ni/Ne based on a single example. Ni dominants want to see Te/Fe events that confirm their intuitive hunch. Ne is continuously scanning the environment to identify new abstract relationships. A Ne user may be forced to single out a single instance within a vast spiderweb of intuitive ideas.

Yes, I usually connect incoming data, in the same manner as that example, to something from before. I don't understand how this could possibly be hard-wired, though. Does that mean that an SiNe person will have to have the Ne relationship 'spelled out' for them, then it gets internalized?

I have noticed that the younger ESxJs in my life make really 'off' analogies (I often cringe). I suppose this is because they are SiNe but their Ne is still not mature.

The bolded: This is probably another Se/Ne difference, because I definitely don't scan the environment, which is interesting. Though you might mean subconscious scanning, or scanning new subjects/information, rather than the literal environment, in which case that is similar. Except for the abstract-ness.

The underlined: Is this when someone goes, "I've seen this happen a lot" but can't point to a specific example? (Always happens, lol, so it probably isn't specific to a function....)

Yes, it is a Pi/Pe thing...except that Si users are even more likely than Ni users to be these very specified experts of facts on a particular topic or collectors, although Ni users can have a similar single minded quality in some instances. I'll never forget rolling my eyes at an INTJ who I otherwise consider to be quite intelligent saying "why do people talk about politics and have personal blogs on this site? this is a typology site, we should talk about typology, go to a different forum for those things to talk about those things." To me as an Ne user I'm like "who the fuck cares? why does everything have to be 'on topic'? Different subjects interconnect! It's all relevant!" (well maybe not ALL of it, but most of it )

I think it's quite possible you're an ISFP, especially if you're sure you have Fi.

I am also very bothered (though probably not as much as an Ne user) by 'that's too off-topic' or 'that's too random' type comments. I don't even know what random means anymore. Were does one topic end and the next begin? All lines are arbitrary, even lines between objects, really. They are of practical use only. I get these 'random' comments from SJs mostly. I think they are locked within one context while conversing. Everything outside that context is random to them. They also seem to think that every 'maybe' is actual. I say, 'maybe it's like this....' and they're like, 'really?' They don't know that it's just a thought. This could be partially related to J/P as well actually. I would say though, you are right, it is mostly Ne/Si conflict.

I think I'm an ISFP too... I'm mostly sure of Fi anyway.

 

[Thalassa]

I think Iz actually put it really well in the temperament thread, when he said Ni users are piercers and Si users are drillers. That whole post was full of win, in succinctly glossing over the perceiving functions.

 

[Noon]

whereas Ni, assuming i understand it correctly, is more like distillation - a Se observation in the present "plugs" into an overall hypothesis of how the world works. for example, you observe that a tree is bearing apples. that plugs into the concept of life-new life. so then you can take that elsewhere and apply it to other things: for example, a human woman will have a baby. life-new life. you can expect that other plants will bear new life too. so i think that's sort of how Ni "foretelling" works - because Ni users trace observations back to general patterns that are universally applicable. then they just apply them in places where the pattern hasn't run to completion yet, but they can see the end already because they know the end pattern.

i tend to think of Ni as trying to find the one pattern that explains everything by boiling everything down as much as possible. whereas Ne tries to find the one pattern that explains everything by linking everything as much as possible.

I love all of this.

People with Ne anxieties (while still very young) will be very hesitant to trust anything new, different, or strange, and may be quite upset by people who embrace those things with or without discretion. Yet as these people grow older, they can start seeing expanding possibilities as a positive thing, and ironically their anxieties about health and safety can look similar to the person with stronger Ne.

And I really agree with this!

 

[INTP]

I think Iz actually put it really well in the temperament thread, when he said Ni users are piercers and Si users are drillers. That whole post was full of win, in succinctly glossing over the perceiving functions.

but its different with dom or aux function than tert or inferior. my Si doesent drill