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How do you sort The Temperaments for your purposes?

strychnine

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big picture vs details, thats the biggest difference between P functions. Ni and Ne both see patterns, look at big picture, combine things(Ne what is perceived and Ni what is judged) etc etc. Si sees the impression of whats happening, Se sees details in objective manner, Se sees objective details, Si sees details on subjective impressions.,Si creates personal impression based on what is judged(that way creating the subjective impression, with Si dom the judgment comes from unconscious most the time, making more room for the actual impression on conscious), Se just taking in what is perceived.

And how does that relate to your point?
 

INTP

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And how does that relate to your point?

is you read it, you might notice that Ni and Ne are quite similar and Si and Se are quite different..
 

INTP

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Ok then. :shrug:

This has been enlightening.

you say Se and Ne are quite similar, still you cant understand what i see as obvious. like so obvious that if i didnt understand about MBTI that you Se users cant understand me(as Ne user), i would see you as like really fucking retarded, like what you would think about 20 year old who cant count 1+2, even if he has been studying math for several years already.

and icase you dont see my point there, im not calling you Se users stupid, because i do know about MBTI and understand that Ne and Se communicate differently. and im just trying to prove to you that Ne and Se are actually pretty different, even tho they are both oriented extraverted.

you know Ne is about seeing behind the scenes, patterns and all that, Se is just seeing what is. i think thats a HUGE difference, so huge that its pretty damn obvious that there is a distinction between N and S on sorting temperaments
 

strychnine

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So you're saying because there is a current N/S distinction on sorting temperaments, there should be an N/S distinction on sorting temperaments? Since when does "what is" determine "what could be"?

And also, you are not 'proving' anything, you are just repeating yourself without further explanation. But I've given up now, so you say what you want.:)
 

Thalassa

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Yeah there are some similarities between Se and Ne, just in the sense of breadth and wanting new experiences, but they are VERY different functions...to the point that I've actually thought some Se users were "stupid" in the past, or that their humor was crass, etc...I was actually more likely to respect SJs than SPs in the past,I think, before I studied MBTI, because while some of them could seem rigid in their thinking (especially when very young, like adolescent SJs vs. adolescent NPs omgz talk about misunderstanding) I at least respected the fact that they were detail oriented and got things done, etc. would admire it.

I have enormous respect for SPs now, though, because people with Se can do things that I would never ever be good at.

Anyone who thinks Se and Ne are all that similar should read Jung. I see a HUGE difference between myself and my ESFP mother, though we share a common bond through the aux Fi and tert Te, and also share a need to explore our respective worlds.

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
 

Eric B

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Also, what is the name for a 16-sided figure? We need a 3D transparent MBTI soccer ball to see all possibilities with interior linear connections.

/nerd
If it's 3D, it would be a hexadecahedron. Make it 4D (which works well with the four dimensional MBTI system), then it's a hexadecachoron.
 

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So you're saying because there is a current N/S distinction on sorting temperaments, there should be an N/S distinction on sorting temperaments? Since when does "what is" determine "what could be"?

And also, you are not 'proving' anything, you are just repeating yourself without further explanation. But I've given up now, so you say what you want.:)

learn about mbti, there is no point of talking about this with someone with clearly no real understanding about the subject
 

strychnine

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learn about mbti, there is no point of talking about this with someone with clearly no real understanding about the subject

So there is no N/S axis in MBTI?

Yeah there are some similarities between Se and Ne, just in the sense of breadth and wanting new experiences, but they are VERY different functions...to the point that I've actually thought some Se users were "stupid" in the past, or that their humor was crass, etc...I was actually more likely to respect SJs in the past I think, before I studied MBTI than SPs, because while some of them could seem rigid in their thinking (especially when very young, like adolescent SJs vs. adolescent NPs omgz talk about misunderstanding) I at least respected the fact that they were detail oriented and got things done, etc. would admire it.

I have enormous respect for SPs now, though, because people with Se can do things that I would never ever be good at.

Anyone who thinks Se and Ne are all that similar should read Jung. I see a HUGE difference between myself and my ESFP mother, though we share a common bond through the aux Fi and tert Te, and also share a need to explore our respective worlds.

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm

Ok. I haven't read Jung, I've only read the function attitudes, so I suppose that is where my idea of their similarity is coming from. I will read that link. Eventually. (Just not right now, it's a whole book lol)
 

Thalassa

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That part is good to read because you could actually just scroll down and read "Extroverted Sensing Type" and "Extroverted Intuitive Type" and compare the two. It just gives you an idea of the what the functions are, and also does some in the way of explaining how inferior Ni shows up in Se doms and how inferior Si shows up in Ne doms, etc.
 

Orangey

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:doh:

but its obvious if you understand what Si, Se, Ni and Ne means and if you understand the meaning for words 'similar' and 'different'. Se and Si are different, Ni and Ne are similar. what more do you need lol? if you need definitions for Si, Se, Ni and Ne, try google.

:doh:

Um, it's not obvious at all. The only thing that's obvious is that there are four perceiving functions that are different enough from one another to be labeled as different functions. I don't know where you're getting the idea that the degrees of similarity between Se/Si and Ne/Ni are different, nor how you have come to determine this degree of difference.

It wouldn't even go to court in the first place. No matter how I decide to group the temperaments, it's not going to affect you. Even if I'm 'wrong' and you're 'right'. Even if my system makes no sense. You will not die or be injured by my 'crime'.

:huh: I wasn't referring to you, nor was I saying that it's a crime to have a different opinion about temperament organization. I was simply pointing out that it's a bit silly to say that there's no "right or wrong way to do anything for one's personal purposes."

how about for example ENTP with good Si and Ti(low E), that sort of ENTP is more similar to ESFP than INTP with high Ne and Fe(low I)?

in conclusion this pairing works only if you look as extremes -> it fails

Or how about an ESFP with really high Fe and Ni? Surely they're more similar to an ENFJ than they are to an ENFP? Or an INTJ with such high Fi and Ne that they look INFP? Or an ISFP with high Ni and Te that comes off as an INTJ? If you're allowing functions to be flexible in order (or "strength") then there's no point to having temperament categories in the first place because any type can look like any other type. If I met an ENFP with such good Si and Te that they came off more as an INTP than an ESFP, then I'm going to revise how I typed them because they're probably not ENFP.

you say Se and Ne are quite similar, still you cant understand what i see as obvious. like so obvious that if i didnt understand about MBTI that you Se users cant understand me(as Ne user), i would see you as like really fucking retarded, like what you would think about 20 year old who cant count 1+2, even if he has been studying math for several years already.

and icase you dont see my point there, im not calling you Se users stupid, because i do know about MBTI and understand that Ne and Se communicate differently. and im just trying to prove to you that Ne and Se are actually pretty different, even tho they are both oriented extraverted.

you know Ne is about seeing behind the scenes, patterns and all that, Se is just seeing what is. i think thats a HUGE difference, so huge that its pretty damn obvious that there is a distinction between N and S on sorting temperaments

I don't think anyone ever said that Se and Ne weren't different. You said that Se and Si were MORE DIFFERENT from each other than Ne and Ni. Disagreeing with that claim does not mean that one disregards the differences between Se and Ne (or any other pair of functions.)

And if anyone is misunderstanding you, it's not because you're an Ne user but because you made a claim, failed to properly back it up, and then proceeded to suggest that if anyone disagreed with you, they simply did not know enough about MBTI.
 
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INTP

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That part is good to read because you could actually just scroll down and read "Extroverted Sensing Type" and "Extroverted Intuitive Type" and compare the two. It just gives you an idea of the what the functions are, and also does some in the way of explaining how inferior Ni shows up in Se doms and how inferior Si shows up in Ne doms, etc.

i suggest the sections of the actual functions more than types.

one thing that is pretty confusing(if you just look at it fast) on that book is that both Se and Si(for example) are talked as sensation, but introverted sensation is under the introverted type and extraverted sensation under extraverted type. same goes with all function descriptions. i think it might be that he is comparing Se and Si but under both sensation topics.
 

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someone remind me to run fast if i ever see any Se users in the real world
 

strychnine

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That part is good to read because you could actually just scroll down and read "Extroverted Sensing Type" and "Extroverted Intuitive Type" and compare the two. It just gives you an idea of the what the functions are, and also does some in the way of explaining how inferior Ni shows up in Se doms and how inferior Si shows up in Ne doms, etc.

I'll read that. Sorry about posting without reading Jung himself. I guess what I have read on the functions is quite different.

:huh: I wasn't referring to you, nor was I saying that it's a crime to have a different opinion about temperament organization. I was simply pointing out that it's a bit silly to say that there's no "right or wrong way to do anything for one's personal purposes."

That's silly, in general. Yet, shortnsweet was referring to this context, in which I don't think it's silly.
 

INTP

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I guess what I have read on the functions is quite different.

not different, its just that some short MBTI descriptions just scratch the surface, especially if you just Se on them and not actually think whats the deal behind them
 

INTP

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Nah, just don't open your mouth and you'll be fine.

i rather just run, so i dont need to waste money on one of these:

I_M_WITH_STUPID.jpg
 
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