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  1. #101
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  2. #102
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    I prefer Linda V. Berens, founder of the Temperament Research Institute which is currently known as Interstrength® Associates. She was a former student of Keirsey, but she brought the Jungian processes into her work. Much of her work can be found online. She has so many different publications, I've lost count. You can search Linda V. Berens at Amazon.com to get a complete list. She's been a huge player in the "type game," so to speak, for more than 25 years.

    Keirsey is old news, and limited in scope.
    If you look up the Model T Ford, you'll see his photo.


    How does Keirsey's Temperament Theory differ from Jungian Typology?

    One of the greatest misconceptions about Keirsey's Temperament Theory is that it was derived from Carl Jung's work on mental processes. David Keirsey developed Temperament Theory by studying the works of Kretchmer, Spranger, and has been an outspoken critic of Carl Jung's work on mental processes. As a "Gestalt" psychologist, Kerisey developed Temperament theory from a discovery that people can be grouped together by similar patterns of behavior, values, attitudes and the use of language. These "similar patterns" make up his four temperaments-Artisans, Guardians, Rationals and Idealists.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    This is the same person who said if he sees an Se user IRL he's going to run, so that he doesn't have to wear a tee shirt that says "I'm With Stupid."
    Anytime anyone cites another person's function order as evidence of their personal inabilities, declares them to be in some stupid sort of dominant-tertiary loop because they disagree with something they said, or just plain discriminates based upon type, Jung exacts his revenge from the grave by devising another barely falsifiable theory for people to bastardize.

  4. #104
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Myers's Four Groups

    Crossing paths with Isabel Myers got me in the habit of typewatching
    way back in 1956. Myers completed her book The Myers-Briggs Type
    Indicator in 1958 and published it in 1962, though Educational Testing
    Service had been using her questionnaire, the MBTI, for some years doing
    personality research in numerous colleges and high schools around the
    country, and this is where I first encountered her work.
    I soon found it convenient and useful to partition Myers's sixteen
    types into four groups, which she herself suggested in saying that all four
    of what she referred to as the "NFs" were alike in many ways and that all
    four of the "NTs" were alike in many ways-although what she called the
    "STs" seemed to me to have very little in common, just as the "SFs" had
    little in common. However, four earlier contributors, Adickes, Spranger,
    Kretschmer, and Fromm, each having written of four types of character,
    helped me to see that Myers's four "SJs" were very much alike, as were
    her four "SPs." Bingo! Typewatching from then on was a lot easier, the
    four groups-SPs, SJs, NFs, and NTs-being light years apart in their
    attitudes and actions. This, then, is what Myers had to say about the four
    groups:

    The SPs
    Myers had SPs probing around their immediate surroundings in order
    to detect and exploit any favorable options that came within reach. Having
    the freedom to act on the spur of the moment, whenever or wherever an
    opportunity arises, is very important to SPs. No chance is to be blown, no
    opening missed, no angle overlooked-whatever or whoever might turn
    out to be exciting, pleasurable, or useful is checked out for advantage.
    Though they may differ in their attitude toward tough-minded ness (T) and
    friendliness (F) in exploring for options, and though some are socially
    expressive (E) and some reserved (I), all of them make sure that what they
    do is practical and effective in getting what they want.
    Consistent with this view Myers described SPs as "adaptable," "artistic,"
    and "athletic"-as very much "aware of reality and never fighting it "-as
    "open-minded" and ever "on the lookout for workable compromises"-as
    knowing "what's going on around them" and as able "to see the needs of
    the moment"-as "storing up useful facts" and having "no use for theories"-
    as "easygoing," "tolerant," "unprejudiced," and "persuasive"-as
    "gifted with machines and tools"-as acting "with effortless economy"-as
    "sensitive to color, line, and texture"-as wanting "first-hand experiences"
    and in general "enjoying life." So SPs, as seen by Myers, are very much
    like one another and very much different from the other types, the SJs,
    NFs, and NTs.

    The SJs
    Myers had SJs, like SPs, observing their close surroundings with a
    keen eye, but for an entirely different reason, namely that of scheduling
    their own and others' activities so that needs are met and conduct is kept
    within bounds. Thus for SJs, everything should be in its proper place,
    everybody should be doing what they're supposed to, everybody should be
    getting their just deserts, every action should be closely supervised, all
    products thoroughly inspected, all legitimate needs promptly met, all approved
    ventures carefully insured. Though SJs might differ in being toughminded
    (T) or friendly (F) in observing their schedules, and though they
    can be expressive (E) or reserved (I) in social attitude, all of them demand
    that ways and means of getting things done are proper and acceptable.
    And so Myers described the SJs as "conservative" and "stable"-as
    "consistent" and "routinized"-as "sensible," "factual," and "unimpulsive"-
    as "patient," "dependable," and "hard-working"-as "detailed,"
    "painstaking," "persevering," and "thorough." This too is a clear-cut pattern
    of action and attitude, highly unlike that of the SPs, NFs, and NTs.

    The NFs
    On the introspective side, Myers had NFs as friendly to the core in
    dreaming up how to give meaning and wholeness to people's lives. Conflict
    in those around them is painful for NFs, something they must deal with in
    a very personal way, and so they care deeply about keeping morale high in
    their membership groups, and about nurturing the positive self-image of
    their loved ones. Indeed, while they might differ from each other on how
    important judging schedules (J) or probing for options (P) is in acting on
    their friendly feelings, and while their social address can be expressive (E)
    or reserved (I), all NFs consider it vitally important to have everyone in
    their circle-their family, friends, and colleagues-feeling good about themselves
    and getting along with each other.
    Thus Myers, an INFP herself, saw her fellow NFs as "humane" and
    "sympathetic"-as "enthusiastic" and "religious"-as "creative" and "intuitive"-
    and as "insightful" and "subjective." Again this is a distinct picture
    of attitude and action, showing NFs to be very much like each other and
    greatly different from SPs, SJs, and NTs.

    The NTs
    Also on the introspective side, Myers had NTs as tough-minded in
    figuring out what sort of technology might be useful to solve a given
    problem. To this end, NTs require themselves to be persistently and
    consistently rational in their actions. Though they may differ in their preference
    for judging schedules (J) or probing for options (P) as they tackle
    problems, and though they can seem expressive (E) or reserved (I) around
    others, all NTs insist that they have a rationale for everything they do, that
    whatever they do and say makes sense.
    So Myers described the NTs as "analytical" and "systematic"-as "abstract,"
    "theoretical," and "intellectual"-as "complex," "competent" and
    "inventive"-as "efficient," "exacting" and "independent"-as "logical"
    and "technical"-and as "curious," "scientific," and "research-oriented."
    Here again is a unique and easily recognizable configuration of character
    traits, the NTs a breed apart, starkly different from SPs, SJs, and NFs..
    I know I've been having trouble with duplicate posts lately, too....
    I just worry that everyone might think that I'm repeating myself to prove a point.

    (Edit: Haha. Just kidding, I just read it.. It's a good refresher.)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  5. #105
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I know I've been having trouble with duplicate posts lately, too....
    I just worry that everyone might think that I'm repeating myself to prove a point.
    Bahaha!
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #106
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    The more I read what these so-called experts have to say about the SJ dichotomy, the more I see they have it wrong. They looked at their parents and their bosses and projected that image to everyone.

  7. #107
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I prefer Linda V. Berens, founder of the Temperament Research Institute which is currently known as Interstrength® Associates. She was a former student of Keirsey, but she brought the Jungian processes into her work. Much of her work can be found online. She has so many different publications, I've lost count. You can search Linda V. Berens at Amazon.com to get a complete list. She's been a huge player in the "type game," so to speak, for more than 25 years.

    Keirsey is old news, and limited in scope.
    If you look up the Model T Ford, you'll see his photo.


    How does Keirsey's Temperament Theory differ from Jungian Typology?
    you know the fact that Keirseys theory originated from different source, while measuring the same thing than jungs typology and correlates with it, only increases its validity with convergent validity.. and convergent validity is what you want to look at with this sort of things when validating its theory.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

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