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  1. #91
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    were those opinions i just heard?

  2. #92

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    Wow, this is the last time I create a thread and don't return for a couple days because I'm too busy. WTF happened???

    ...Well, the negligence continues because I have to get ready for work and there is a lot of crap stuff to wade through and respond to here. I will be back!



    For those who shared their perspective without devolving into a pissing match, I thank you.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    do people trying to come up with these new kinds of temperament sorters actually think that they understand jungian typology better than for example david keirsey?

    i think this sounds about right:
    Not all of us agree with David Keirsey, in fact many of us believe he did a disservice to Jung by over-simplifying his work into harmful stereotypes that completely disregard the functions.

    Stop trying to sell your opinion as though it were fact.

    In fact, your appeals to authority without regards to original thought or questioning seem pretty fucking rigid - yet you're claiming to be such an open minded N.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    im not trying to display my ideas about this temperament sorter, im trying to display ideas of professionals and explain them a bit. because well there is a reason why these professionals sorted the temperaments in certain way.
    and people are making total newbie mistakes when doing this sorting. like for example sorting them based on E. E varies because the strength of E comes from strength of functions and because E-I varies in type like this, some E people might be really close to I, so you cant really sort it with E and I, since it varies. naturally functions like N varies in strength too, but it varies in totally different way, low N doesent mean stronger S, but lower E means higher I. lower F doesent mean lower T and lower J doesent mean stronger P. because N-S, T-F and J-P comes from the functions itself, they are indicator what functions the person uses, not an indicator for how strong these functions are.

    when it comes to insults. you dont think things like "Any Ne user should appreciate that" are qualified as insult? when you say something like that, it indicates that you think that my Ne isnt well developed, meaning that im not developed well(in balanced way) mentally. i might be a bit straight forward with my insults, like with with that im with stupid shirt thing, but im just replying on insults with them. when i say something like "your way to sort temperaments is no good" its not an insult to the person, its just criticizing his theory and i do it because it clearly needs to be criticized, since its based on too little knowledge about the subject. and its not that it only goes against my view on the subject, it goes against professionals view about the subject and those professionals clearly know what they are talking about(more so than anyone on this forum). people should learn more about the existing temperament sorters and try to understand reasons behind them before trying to make up their own. making up stuff without knowledge about the subject isnt very smart thing to do.


    and if you look at how this started:






    was i the one who started with this crap or the one who just continued it?

    it you think it wasnt me who started this after reading my first post on this topic and the response to it, you are barking at the wrong tree and talking about things you got no idea about, even tho its all right in front of you.
    Developing some inferior Fe might be a great help to you. In fact, just developing some plain old-fashioned self-awareness would do.

  5. #95
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    heheh, good ol' function-based bashing

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    heheh, good ol' function-based bashing
    This is the same person who said if he sees an Se user IRL he's going to run, so that he doesn't have to wear a tee shirt that says "I'm With Stupid."

    Then he continues on, ranting that people don't know what they're talking about, but expects them to respect his AUTHORITIIII.

    It's absurd.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Not all of us agree with David Keirsey
    i understand that, its just that people disagree with his way without understanding the reasons for his way to sort the temperaments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    This is the same person who said if he sees an Se user IRL he's going to run, so that he doesn't have to wear a tee shirt that says "I'm With Stupid."

    Then he continues on, ranting that people don't know what they're talking about, but expects them to respect his AUTHORITIIII.

    It's absurd.
    that running away from them was an obvious joke and i made that shirt comment because he started to fuck with me
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Keirsey
    Myers's Four Groups

    Crossing paths with Isabel Myers got me in the habit of typewatching
    way back in 1956. Myers completed her book The Myers-Briggs Type
    Indicator in 1958 and published it in 1962, though Educational Testing
    Service had been using her questionnaire, the MBTI, for some years doing
    personality research in numerous colleges and high schools around the
    country, and this is where I first encountered her work.
    I soon found it convenient and useful to partition Myers's sixteen
    types into four groups, which she herself suggested in saying that all four
    of what she referred to as the "NFs" were alike in many ways and that all
    four of the "NTs" were alike in many ways-although what she called the
    "STs" seemed to me to have very little in common, just as the "SFs" had
    little in common. However, four earlier contributors, Adickes, Spranger,
    Kretschmer, and Fromm, each having written of four types of character,
    helped me to see that Myers's four "SJs" were very much alike, as were
    her four "SPs." Bingo! Typewatching from then on was a lot easier, the
    four groups-SPs, SJs, NFs, and NTs-being light years apart in their
    attitudes and actions. This, then, is what Myers had to say about the four
    groups:

    The SPs
    Myers had SPs probing around their immediate surroundings in order
    to detect and exploit any favorable options that came within reach. Having
    the freedom to act on the spur of the moment, whenever or wherever an
    opportunity arises, is very important to SPs. No chance is to be blown, no
    opening missed, no angle overlooked-whatever or whoever might turn
    out to be exciting, pleasurable, or useful is checked out for advantage.
    Though they may differ in their attitude toward tough-minded ness (T) and
    friendliness (F) in exploring for options, and though some are socially
    expressive (E) and some reserved (I), all of them make sure that what they
    do is practical and effective in getting what they want.
    Consistent with this view Myers described SPs as "adaptable," "artistic,"
    and "athletic"-as very much "aware of reality and never fighting it "-as
    "open-minded" and ever "on the lookout for workable compromises"-as
    knowing "what's going on around them" and as able "to see the needs of
    the moment"-as "storing up useful facts" and having "no use for theories"-
    as "easygoing," "tolerant," "unprejudiced," and "persuasive"-as
    "gifted with machines and tools"-as acting "with effortless economy"-as
    "sensitive to color, line, and texture"-as wanting "first-hand experiences"
    and in general "enjoying life." So SPs, as seen by Myers, are very much
    like one another and very much different from the other types, the SJs,
    NFs, and NTs.

    The SJs
    Myers had SJs, like SPs, observing their close surroundings with a
    keen eye, but for an entirely different reason, namely that of scheduling
    their own and others' activities so that needs are met and conduct is kept
    within bounds. Thus for SJs, everything should be in its proper place,
    everybody should be doing what they're supposed to, everybody should be
    getting their just deserts, every action should be closely supervised, all
    products thoroughly inspected, all legitimate needs promptly met, all approved
    ventures carefully insured. Though SJs might differ in being toughminded
    (T) or friendly (F) in observing their schedules, and though they
    can be expressive (E) or reserved (I) in social attitude, all of them demand
    that ways and means of getting things done are proper and acceptable.
    And so Myers described the SJs as "conservative" and "stable"-as
    "consistent" and "routinized"-as "sensible," "factual," and "unimpulsive"-
    as "patient," "dependable," and "hard-working"-as "detailed,"
    "painstaking," "persevering," and "thorough." This too is a clear-cut pattern
    of action and attitude, highly unlike that of the SPs, NFs, and NTs.

    The NFs
    On the introspective side, Myers had NFs as friendly to the core in
    dreaming up how to give meaning and wholeness to people's lives. Conflict
    in those around them is painful for NFs, something they must deal with in
    a very personal way, and so they care deeply about keeping morale high in
    their membership groups, and about nurturing the positive self-image of
    their loved ones. Indeed, while they might differ from each other on how
    important judging schedules (J) or probing for options (P) is in acting on
    their friendly feelings, and while their social address can be expressive (E)
    or reserved (I), all NFs consider it vitally important to have everyone in
    their circle-their family, friends, and colleagues-feeling good about themselves
    and getting along with each other.
    Thus Myers, an INFP herself, saw her fellow NFs as "humane" and
    "sympathetic"-as "enthusiastic" and "religious"-as "creative" and "intuitive"-
    and as "insightful" and "subjective." Again this is a distinct picture
    of attitude and action, showing NFs to be very much like each other and
    greatly different from SPs, SJs, and NTs.

    The NTs
    Also on the introspective side, Myers had NTs as tough-minded in
    figuring out what sort of technology might be useful to solve a given
    problem. To this end, NTs require themselves to be persistently and
    consistently rational in their actions. Though they may differ in their preference
    for judging schedules (J) or probing for options (P) as they tackle
    problems, and though they can seem expressive (E) or reserved (I) around
    others, all NTs insist that they have a rationale for everything they do, that
    whatever they do and say makes sense.
    So Myers described the NTs as "analytical" and "systematic"-as "abstract,"
    "theoretical," and "intellectual"-as "complex," "competent" and
    "inventive"-as "efficient," "exacting" and "independent"-as "logical"
    and "technical"-and as "curious," "scientific," and "research-oriented."
    Here again is a unique and easily recognizable configuration of character
    traits, the NTs a breed apart, starkly different from SPs, SJs, and NFs.
    .
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  9. #99
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    Here's my sorting based on which part of the brain is more dominant. In my opinion the functional attitudes of these types appear to be the most similar. For example, Ti and Fi are both right-brain functions, so I grouped them together. (source)

    Ne, Se = Right Brain (front)
    ENTP Ne Ti Fe Si
    ESTP Se Ti Fe Ni
    ESFP Se Fi Te Ni
    ENFP Ne Fi Te Si

    Ti, Fi = Right Brain (back)
    ISTP Ti Se Ni Fe
    ISFP Fi Se Ni Te
    INTP Ti Ne Si Fe
    INFP Fi Ne Si Te

    Te, Fe = Left Brain (front)
    ESTJ Te Si Ne Fi
    ENTJ Te Ni Se Fi
    ESFJ Fe Si Ne Ti
    ENFJ Fe Ni Se Ti

    Si, Ni = Left Brain (back)
    ISTJ Si Te Fi Ne
    INTJ Ni Te Fi Se
    ISFJ Si Fe Ti Ne
    INFJ Ni Fe Ti Se



  10. #100
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    functions doesent correlate with brain regions like that

    http://aptinternational.org/assets/j..._1105_apti.pdf

    and before you disagree with this study before you red that book first, be sure you read this part "Unlike much of the past research, which only examined changes in alpha bandwidth activity, we found differences in the beta 2 and beta 3 bandwidths as well."

    there has been alot of brain region to function maps like that, i have seen at least 3 ones that suggest functions to locate in different areas.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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