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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Bart View Post
    I think part of the problem is that my ENFP daughter has an ENTP dad (I love him dearly, but such is life). He knows the rules, he knows when he can safely break them and he knows exactly how to get out of trouble when he does break them (darn those NTs!). My daughter tries to do the same, but I just don't think it's exactly the same for NF's. At least, that's my take on it. I hate to tell her she can't go out and challenge the things in life that annoy her in exactly the way her dad does, but she falls back on Te way too much and it's her downfall -- she sees it work great for her dad, so she thinks she can do the same thing and then she feels terrible when it won't.
    As I can see, it can have to do with maturity. But as I'm younger than your daughter, I feel kinda uncomfortable to say something about...

    So I'll wait for some older ENFP to help you...

  2. #32
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfs1992 View Post
    OMG! ME TOO! Though a little more balanced than it was in a earlier time. Sometimes, as I said, I'm like a hardcore hater! :P


    Fights with parents was very common! ISFJ mom and ESTJ dad. My family is ALL SJ! [...]

    And this struggle with be liked and be yourself is terrible. Just like the "full of loneliness" times... Fi bursting is TENSE! Plus Te it's a bomb! I was an arguer and I am till today, what still causes a lot of fights too. It's unconquerable...

    Thank you for sharing!
    thank you!! i agree, both things. understanding oneself in an SJ world is tricky (i have some NTPs in the family, which has helped me adjust i think. sometimes i am way more practical than they are.) and yeah Fi is like an angry stallion or something sometimes. it WANTS TO RUNNN

    Quote Originally Posted by cfs1992
    ]Just like the scarce interaction with other children in childhood. I was the daydreaming only-daughter, my interactions was a lot more with adults this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by cfs1992 View Post
    +1

    I'm majoring to be a linguistics/literature teacher. I just can't imagine myself teaching children. Nightmare.
    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Skylight, I can relate to your ability to deal with adults better than children. Interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Relate to this completely as well.
    this is very interesting. i used to think my lack of facility with peers was because of my childhood circumstances, but maybe it's a personality thing too. i wonder why. i think when i was a kid other kids seemed sort of simultaneously boring and intimidating (i didn't like when they came in packs). and adults just knew so much more and would tell you more interesting things when you asked. they were more useful, honestly.



    anyway. i do like kids and get along with them fine now (as usual i get along much better with them 1-on-1 than in groups, but that's true with adults too).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Bart View Post
    Great thread! You're really helping me relax a little bit more about my ENFP daughter -- she seems so much like all of you. One thing I didn't see here: she feels that the rules never apply to her and then becomes extremely hurt and outraged when she finds out the hard way that they do. For example, rather than parking in paid parking lots, she always parks where she clearly shouldn't and, of course, she got towed the other night and called in tears wanting to know what to do. Both her dad and I said "well, what did you expect?" which made her even angrier. My question is, ENFP's, is this something endemic to ENFP's and do you eventually mature out of it or is it just my daughter and do I need to work harder at getting her to understand that rule-breaking isn't as cool as she thinks it is (she's 21, by the way)?
    like others have said, it sort of depends on the circumstances. we are totally sensotards sometimes. so she honestly might not realize. on the other hand, what i'm guessing is that she feels some inkling of this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Rules that make sense? I follow them to the letter. Rules that don't make sense and unnecessarily complicate life? I try to wheedle my way out of them and get extremely frustrated if it doesn't work. I also hate the unnecessary complications that go along with not following rules that don't make sense and then get penalized for it.
    with parking, i usually have these thoughts:
    - it's stupid that i have to pay for parking if the deck is full, when other people are not paying just because the deck was not full when they got there
    - it's stupid that i have to pay in exact change for meters (quarters and dimes and nickels, but sometimes not new quarters, and not pennies or dollar coins), so i'll tuck a dollar bill in the meter if i don't have change (have never gotten a ticket from that)
    - it's stupid when there is not enough parking within a reasonable distance, so i might park illegally
    - it's annoying when i have to park 15 minutes away to run a 5 minute errand in the building, so i might park illegally (and leave flashers on)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Bart View Post
    I think part of the problem is that my ENFP daughter has an ENTP dad (I love him dearly, but such is life). He knows the rules, he knows when he can safely break them and he knows exactly how to get out of trouble when he does break them (darn those NTs!). My daughter tries to do the same, but I just don't think it's exactly the same for NF's. At least, that's my take on it. I hate to tell her she can't go out and challenge the things in life that annoy her in exactly the way her dad does, but she falls back on Te way too much and it's her downfall -- she sees it work great for her dad, so she thinks she can do the same thing and then she feels terrible when it won't.
    hahaha yeah, that makes sense. we can work the system in a similar way to NTs but we can't get out of trouble in the same way. not that i have experience in this... haha... really... but seriously, not to encourage her down a manipulative path, but if she wants to get out of stuff, she's going to need to engage her Fi more and be careful about Te - use sparingly, lol. you could try encouraging her in a Fe direction - that has helped me. for example, just go ahead and park legally, but call up the parking deck and complain. that way you still deal with the issue, but with perhaps less personal penalty.

    as for saying "well what did you expect" - i'm guessing she knew the penalty totally well, lol. that comment would be frustrating to me because it doesn't really help in any way, you know? like it doesn't make you feel any better and doesn't help you solve the problems you have now, nor does it help you come to terms with the fact that parking really often just sucks and there's not always much you can do about it.

    i don't know if you can realistically ever expect her to curtail that sort of thing to a great extent - to be honest, i park illegally really often because i feel like the rules are so arbitrary and erratic - but she can get better at how she goes about breaking rules. a few bad consequences should position her to rethink things... i'm not necessarily less rule-breaking in terms of mindset, but after a few nasty parking tickets, a nasty speeding ticket, etc, i'm more careful about exactly where i bend the rules and to what extent. sometimes it's just not worth the potential penalty.

    edit - oh! duh. she might also park illegally less if she's not running a little late i tend to push my time close and then "need" to speed/park illegally to make my appointment/meeting/class/whatever on time. i set my clocks forward 6 minutes to give myself an extra buffer.

  3. #33
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Bart View Post
    I think part of the problem is that my ENFP daughter has an ENTP dad (I love him dearly, but such is life). He knows the rules, he knows when he can safely break them and he knows exactly how to get out of trouble when he does break them (darn those NTs!). My daughter tries to do the same, but I just don't think it's exactly the same for NF's. At least, that's my take on it. I hate to tell her she can't go out and challenge the things in life that annoy her in exactly the way her dad does, but she falls back on Te way too much and it's her downfall -- she sees it work great for her dad, so she thinks she can do the same thing and then she feels terrible when it won't.
    Actually, this is very funny. I'd say she isnt using Te except as a rationalization for why she shouldnt have to be held responsible for her actions. Rather she is swinging by Ne to try an evasive approach. She needs to grow a bit more Te actually-a sense of personal responsiblity combined with Fi-thinking about how her rule breaking will effect other people around her. The best solution is to make her deal with the results of cleaning up her own mess logistically-pay her own fines, figure out her own tickets and so on. This emphasizes the pain factor of breaking the rules. Second, she really needs to stop and think why the rule is there...think about how if the rule is broken it may place additional burdens on others-for instance if you park illegally, you may block a fire lane, thus allow a house to burn down. If you dont pay your parking meter, what would it be like if nobody paid parking meters...the fees collected are used for something in the city, right? If she double parks, well how would she feel if someone else double parked and kept her from parking? what if they did so when she had a child or elderly person in the car? and so on..

  4. #34
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    Hmm... let's see...

    From stories I've been told, I know that when I was very young I was a tad shy, quiet with people I didn't know well but really stubborn. I was gentle with my shy cousins and I loved my older brother from the start.

    Around four, I can remember a bit better... God, you couldn't shut me up. Between 4 and 7 I always felt like a heroine, drawn between Batgirl and the little mermaid. I had friends of both gender and moved by what I knew of social injustice. I thought I was powerful, beautiful, unstoppable. I did well in school, though it bored me, and I always loved words and stories.

    Somewhere between 6 and 12 my sexuality began to emerge. I felt very ashamed and defective for a long time.

    When I was between 8 and 12 I met with bullies. I even switched schools and found new ones. My Fi was erratic, I didn't do so well socially, and coupled with family issues and entering puberty early (lucky me), I wound up painfully anxious, insecure, and volatile.

    Things started looking up between 13 and 14, Fi evened out for me, and in high school I found out I was xNFP and I've been working on self-development ever since. I consider myself a healthy if somewhat shy ENFP now.

  5. #35
    Member ScareBear's Avatar
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    Early childhood: From what I gathered from my folks is that if I was quiet, I was into something. I had a tendency to just go up to strangers and start babbling about whatever my little mind was thinking. I also had a habit of arguing that anything with 4 legs was a "hosser" (my word for horse). My parents would tell me, "No that's a cat," to which I would reply, "No! Hosser!"

    Elementary school: I always wanted to play with the boys because they were a lot more fun. I never really played with Barbie dolls, but get me some Ninja Turtle stuff and I had a field day! I even had "boyfriends" for a couple of those years. I think it made the other girls jealous but of course it was simply a friendship, we just shared toys and played outside together. I did get into a few arguments with the other girls in 5th grade and for the life of me I can't remember why they hated me.

    Middle school: The girl haters ramped up about this time. They didn't like me I guess because I didn't fit into their idea of what a girl should be. One of them even tried to put make-up on me to which I continually had to tell her no, that my mother wouldn't allow me to wear it until I was 14 (that and I just didn't want to wear it!). 7th grade was the hardest because I found some really awesome friends to hang around and they were girls! But I guess I attached myself to them too much because one of them ended up telling me they were just being my friends because they felt sorry for me. Needless to say the rest of that year didn't go over too well. By 8th grade a new girl had moved in about halfway through the year and we became friends. I told her some things about me and she knew I was a goofy sort of character but a few months later we were talking about friendships and she told me that I might have more friends if I stopped going down the hallway acting like an airplane. After that the Ne took a backseat and Te took over.... It wasn't bad but I just felt out of place for a while.

    High school: New place new start some ol' friendship troubles but with different people. People just thought I was weird and tried staying away from me for the most part. They hated it when I got to talking about my new interest because that's all I would talk about. Friendships came and went and I wondered why I couldn't get close to anyone even family (all INT's). Thus started the downward spiral into bad habits and being around people who did the same things thinking, "Wow I'm having fun and people who actually want me to be around!"

    Adulthood (20's): Again with destructive behavior. Ran away to Colorado and had been introduced to new and different beliefs but generally when confronted about it, I stuck primarily to beliefs I had been raised with. I didn't break the rules much because I was worried about being caught and no one to bail me out!

    Late 20's- Started growing out of the whole destructive behavior, however, relationship problems still remained. Yes, I will admit some of them I caused and I take full responsibility for it, others however, were very unwarranted.

    30's- Now I'm just trying to figure out what I want to do with my life. I want to try and develop my Ne a lot more since I've met a group of people who are sweet and kind and don't mind my silliness or my imagination. Since I've learned of my personality type (I wish I knew this years ago!) I'm ok with being me and I would like to be a healthy ENFP instead of suppressing everything for fear of being annoying or weird.
    “We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we’re curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.” -Walt Disney

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