User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 38

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,672

    Default Jung's Introverted Feeling Description.

    From his most famous description of the types:

    Introverted feeling in general.
    Introverted feeling is determined principally by the subjective factor. This means that the feeling-judgment differs quite as essentially from extraverted feeling as does the introversion of thinking from extraversion. It is unquestionably difficult to give an intellectual presentation of the introverted feeling process, or even an approximate [p. 490] description of it, although the peculiar character of this kind of feeling simply stands out as soon as one becomes aware of it at all. Since it is primarily controlled by subjective preconditions, and is only secondarily concerned with the object, this feeling appears much less upon the surface and is, as a rule, misunderstood. It is a feeling which apparently depreciates the object; hence it usually becomes noticeable in its negative manifestations. The existence of a positive feeling can be inferred only indirectly, as it were. Its aim is not so much to accommodate to the objective fact as to stand above it, since its whole unconscious effort is to give reality to the underlying images. It is, as it were, continually seeking an image which has no existence in reality, but of which it has had a sort of previous vision. From objects that can never fit in with its aim it seems to glide unheedingly away. It strives after an inner intensity, to which at the most, objects contribute only an accessory stimulus. The depths of this feeling can only be divined -- they can never be clearly comprehended. It makes men silent and difficult of access; with the sensitiveness of the mimosa, it shrinks from the brutality of the object, in order to expand into the depths of the subject. It puts forward negative feeling-judgments or assumes an air of profound indifference, as a measure of self-defence.

    Primordial images are, of course, just as much idea as feeling. Thus, basic ideas such as God, freedom, immortality are just as much feeling-values as they are significant as ideas. Everything, therefore, that has been said of the introverted thinking refers equally to introverted feeling, only here everything is felt while there it was thought. But the fact that thoughts can generally be expressed more intelligibly than feelings demands a more than ordinary descriptive or artistic capacity before the real wealth of this feeling can be even approximately [p. 491] presented or communicated to the outer world. Whereas subjective thinking, on account of its unrelatedness, finds great difficulty in arousing an adequate understanding, the same, though in perhaps even higher degree, holds good for subjective feeling. In order to communicate with others it has to find an external form which is not only fitted to absorb the subjective feeling in a satisfying expression, but which must also convey it to one's fellowman in such a way that a parallel process takes place in him. Thanks to the relatively great internal (as well as external) similarity of the human being, this effect can actually be achieved, although a form acceptable to feeling is extremely difficult to find, so long as it is still mainly orientated by the fathomless store of primordial images. But, when it becomes falsified by an egocentric attitude, it at once grows unsympathetic, since then its major concern is still with the ego. Such a case never fails to create an impression of sentimental self-love, with its constant effort to arouse interest and even morbid self-admiration just as the subjectified consciousness of the introverted thinker, striving after an abstraction of abstractions, only attains a supreme intensity of a thought-process in itself quite empty, so the intensification of egocentric feeling only leads to a contentless passionateness, which merely feels itself. This is the mystical, ecstatic stage, which prepares the way over into the extraverted functions repressed by feeling, just as introverted thinking is pitted against a primitive feeling, to which objects attach themselves with magical force, so introverted feeling is counterbalanced by a primitive thinking, whose concretism and slavery to facts passes all bounds. Continually emancipating itself from the relation to the object, this feeling creates a freedom, both of action and of conscience, that is only answerable to the subject, and that may even renounce all traditional values. But so much the more [p. 492] does unconscious thinking fall a victim to the power of objective facts.
    Dominant introverted feeling
    It is principally among women that I have found the priority of introverted feeling. The proverb 'Still waters run deep' is very true of such women. They are mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and not infrequently their temperament is melancholic. They neither shine nor reveal themselves. Since they submit the control of their lives to their subjectively orientated feeling, their true motives generally remain concealed. Their outward demeanour is harmonious and inconspicuous; they reveal a delightful repose, a sympathetic parallelism, which has no desire to affect others, either to impress, influence, or change them in any way. Should this outer side be somewhat emphasized, a suspicion of neglectfulness and coldness may easily obtrude itself, which not seldom increases to a real indifference for the comfort and well-being of others. One distinctly feels the movement of feeling away from the object. With the normal type, however, such an event only occurs when the object has in some way too strong an effect. The harmonious feeling atmosphere rules only so long as the object moves upon its own way with a moderate feeling intensity, and makes no attempt to cross the other's path. There is little effort to accompany the real emotions of the object, which tend to be damped and rebuffed, or to put it more aptly, are 'cooled off' by a negative feeling-judgment. Although one may find a constant readiness for a peaceful and harmonious companionship, the unfamiliar object is shown no touch of amiability, no gleam of responding warmth, but is met by a manner of apparent indifference or repelling coldness. [p. 493]

    One may even be made to feel the superfluousness of one's own existence. In the presence of something that might carry one away or arouse enthusiasm, this type observes a benevolent neutrality, tempered with an occasional trace of superiority and criticism that soon takes the wind out of the sails of a sensitive object. But a stormy emotion will be brusquely rejected with murderous coldness, unless it happens to catch the subject from the side of the unconscious, i.e. unless, through the animation of some primordial image, feeling is, as it were, taken captive. In which event such a woman simply feels a momentary laming, invariably producing, in due course, a still more violent resistance, which reaches the object in his most vulnerable spot. The relation to the object is, as far as possible, kept in a secure and tranquil middle state of feeling, where passion and its intemperateness are resolutely proscribed. Expression of feeling, therefore, remains niggardly and, when once aware of it at all, the object has a permanent sense of his undervaluation. Such, however, is not always the case, since very often the deficit remains unconscious; whereupon the unconscious feeling-claims gradually produce symptoms which compel a more serious attention.

    A superficial judgment might well be betrayed, by a rather cold and reserved demeanour, into denying all feeling to this type. Such a view, however, would be quite false; the truth is, her feelings are intensive rather than extensive. They develop into the depth. Whereas, for instance, an extensive feeling of sympathy can express itself in both word and deed at the right place, thus quickly ridding itself of its impression, an intensive sympathy, because shut off from every means of expression, gains a passionate depth that embraces the misery of a world and is simply benumbed. It may possibly make an extravagant irruption, leading to some staggering act of an almost heroic character, to which, however, neither the object nor [p. 494] the subject can find a right relation. To the outer world, or to the blind eyes of the extravert, this sympathy looks like coldness, for it does nothing visibly, and an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.

    Such misunderstanding is a characteristic occurrence in the life of this type, and is commonly registered as a most weighty argument against any deeper feeling relation with the object. But the underlying, real object of this feeling is only dimly divined by the normal type. It may possibly express its aim and content in a concealed religiosity anxiously shielded, from profane eyes, or in intimate poetic forms equally safeguarded from surprise; not without a secret ambition to bring about some superiority over the object by such means. Women often express much of it in their children, letting their passionateness flow secretly into them.

    Although in the normal type, the tendency, above alluded to, to overpower or coerce the object once openly and visibly with the thing secretly felt, rarely plays a disturbing role, and never leads to a serious attempt in this direction, some trace of it, none the less, leaks through into the personal effect upon the object, in the form of a domineering influence often difficult to define. It is sensed as a sort of stifling or oppressive feeling which holds the immediate circle under a spell. It gives a woman of this type a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious. This power is derived from the deeply felt, unconscious images; consciousness, however, readily refers it to the ego, whereupon the influence becomes debased into personal tyranny. But, wherever the unconscious subject is identified with the ego, the mysterious power of the intensive feeling is also transformed into banal and arrogant ambition, vanity, and [p. 495] petty tyranny. This produces a type of woman most regrettably distinguished by her unscrupulous ambition and mischievous cruelty. But this change in the picture leads also to neurosis.

    So long as the ego feels itself housed, as it were, beneath the heights of the unconscious subject, and feeling reveals something higher and mightier than the ego, the type is normal. The unconscious thinking is certainly archaic, yet its reductions may prove extremely helpful in compensating the occasional inclinations to exalt the ego into the subject. But, whenever this does take place by dint of complete suppression of the unconscious reductive thinking-products, the unconscious thinking goes over into opposition and becomes projected into objects. Whereupon the now egocentric subject comes to feel the power and importance of the depreciated object. Consciousness begins to feel 'what others think'. Naturally, others are thinking, all sorts of baseness, scheming evil, and contriving all sorts of plots, secret intrigues, etc. To prevent this, the subject must also begin to carry out preventive intrigues, to suspect and sound others, to make subtle combinations. Assailed by rumours, he must make convulsive efforts to convert, if possible, a threatened inferiority into a superiority. Innumerable secret rivalries develop, and in these embittered struggles not only will no base or evil means be disdained, but even virtues will be misused and tampered with in order to play the trump card. Such a development must lead to exhaustion. The form of neurosis is neurasthenic rather than hysterical; in the case of women we often find severe collateral physical states, as for instance anæmia and its sequel
    This description is very different from your average MBTI Fi description. It's portrayed as a cold, internally manipulative function rather than a system of values and feelings (or even the values/feelings themselves, as some descriptions allude to).

    How many relate to the description, regardless of MBTI type? How many MBTI Fi doms don't relate to it? Any similar descriptions? (I recall at least one other description that portrayed Fi like this, but I can't find it)

    I relate to it a lot. More than any other type description. Yet when it comes to MBTI types, I'll relate to Ts more, precisely because I fit this Fi description pretty well. I don't relate to the T functions themselves, but the behavioural descriptions will put me much closer to MBTI Ts than Fs.

  2. #2
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    jungs descriptions tend to be more negativistic in nature than MBTI descriptions. i think its because he made the typology by also studying people when he was working in field of clinical psychiatry, not only healthy individuals. i dont think the negativity in his descriptions is a bad thing, they are just more realistic because they also cover types/functions in unhealthy persons.
    for example this part of Fi type:
    The form of neurosis is neurasthenic rather than hysterical; in the case of women we often find severe collateral physical states, as for instance anæmia and its sequel
    it doesent speak for people who are healthy, its a descriptions how neurosis forms in this type.

    he could have covered more positive sides, but him being an INTP, he wants to cover all sides of the issue and do it in realistic way. speaking about the positive sides much isnt necessary(at least from INTP point of view), because the description covers how the function works and people can see how it can be used in positive light once they understand the function. negative side is important to describe tho, because it allows people to see where they go wrong, so that they can strive better for healthy overall personality.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    he could have covered more positive sides, but him being an INTP, he wants to cover all sides of the issue and do it in realistic way. speaking about the positive sides much isnt necessary(at least from INTP point of view), because the description covers how the function works and people can see how it can be used in positive light once they understand the function. negative side is important to describe tho, because it allows people to see where they go wrong, so that they can strive better for healthy overall personality.
    Do you read this description as negative?

    I see it as overly positive, describing a mentally healthy and well-functioning individual. The bit you quote having the qualifier "whenever this does take place by dint of complete suppression of the unconscious reductive thinking-products, the unconscious thinking goes over into opposition and becomes projected into objects" before it, meaning it refers to things going badly (which they inevitably will many times throughout life, so are quite relevant).

  4. #4
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    jungs descriptions tend to be more negativistic in nature than MBTI descriptions. i think its because he made the typology by also studying people when he was working in field of clinical psychiatry, not only healthy individuals. i dont think the negativity in his descriptions is a bad thing, they are just more realistic because they also cover types/functions in unhealthy persons.
    for example this part of Fi type:


    it doesent speak for people who are healthy, its a descriptions how neurosis forms in this type.

    he could have covered more positive sides, but him being an INTP, he wants to cover all sides of the issue and do it in realistic way. speaking about the positive sides much isnt necessary(at least from INTP point of view), because the description covers how the function works and people can see how it can be used in positive light once they understand the function. negative side is important to describe tho, because it allows people to see where they go wrong, so that they can strive better for healthy overall personality.
    I think you're reading this through your own bias. I identify with the introverted feeling description, and so do other NFPs. I think the extroverted feeling description has just as many concessions for "neurosis" - basically describing a person who cannot even think without using their feelings, and other things that I perceived as negative.

  5. #5
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    i havent read the description in a while, so i dont remember how negative that description is. but jungs definitions tend to be more negativistic than MBTI ones, but thats just because MBTI seems to be overly positive and jungs descriptions just realistic and to be realistic they need to be more negative than MBTI descriptions
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  6. #6
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    I AM DISTINGUISHED BY MY UNSCRUPULOUS AMBITION AND MISCHIEVOUS CRUELTY!!!

    Eh, I think it's interesting that Jung attributes both Fi and Fe to the females, though I suppose it is true that women tend to be Fs more than men.

    To the OP: I think the description very much describes depth and intensity of feeling, so it does talk about feelings, and it talks about Fi's passionate nature.

    It does not discuss values, and I think any description that would assign particular values to Fi would be wrong. Fi does form ethical systems, but one cannot say that Fi has any particular values...those descriptions make me suspicious and full of contempt.

  7. #7
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    2,424

    Default

    I agree with you on both of the things you brought up erm. I relate to it very well, and parts of it clearly echo the relationship I have with a friend of mine, with whom I am more honest than with anyone else.

    I couldn't write anything concise right now to elaborate, but I might do so later if I feel up to it.
    I am more curious about the people who relate well to the MBTI descriptions of Fi, and as an extension the type descriptions themselves, and also this. Do you feel they complement each other, or do they just address entirely different subjects?

  8. #8
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    btw i think you should include the definition for feeling to op
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  9. #9
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Oh, and it does say we can renounce traditional values.

    Jung is spot on.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    It does not discuss values, and I think any description would assign particular values to Fi would be wrong. Fi does form ethical systems, but one cannot say that Fi has any particular values...those descriptions make me suspicious and full of contempt.
    That depends on what "ethical system" means. By the definition I am familiar with, any psychological function has to form an ethical system, or be part of one, in order to be decisive. It's the way they do it, and what general ethical systems result from them, especially given specific context, that would differ.

    I also am immediately repelled by any Fi description that ascribes it a specific value. Many seem to say they value individuality, friendships and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    I am more curious about the people who relate well to the MBTI descriptions of Fi, and as an extension the type descriptions themselves, and also this. Do you feel they complement each other, or do they just address entirely different subjects?
    Good question. I see this description as outright contradictory to the average, as I'd presume you do to, hence curiosity around those who don't.

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] How can I "develop my Introverted Feeling"?
    By Wonkavision in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 08-04-2013, 05:25 AM
  2. [INTJ] INTJ's Introverted Feeling - Child (Puer/Puella)
    By Zhash in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 01-04-2010, 09:06 AM
  3. Why do introverts feel drained from socialization?
    By NewEra in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-22-2009, 06:42 PM
  4. [ISTJ] ISTJs and Introverted Feeling
    By raz in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-19-2009, 04:09 PM
  5. [MBTItm] Introverted Feeling...
    By entropie in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-28-2009, 02:09 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO