User Tag List

First 234

Results 31 to 38 of 38

  1. #31
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    986

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    As for values. I agree that Fi will generally makes value systems, but so will the other J functions. Fi might focus more intently in that area (though Fe would seem to have equal reason to do so), but it's an essential part to all J functions. I dare say Te would usually make the clearest defined system of values.
    I don't know...How do you define 'clearest defined'?
    I think the Je functions would be more focused on the external results/effects of the decision while Ji would be content as long as the decision is consistent with the inner 'world'
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  2. #32
    deleted
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Yes, that is essentially my point. I am very interested in non-Fi doms (MBTI) who relate to this description. I wonder how many there are?
    That's a good question. Several famous people who seem to have that quality of Introverted Feeling off the top of my head are Oprah Winfrey (Ne/Fi), Carrie Fisher (Ne/Fi), Walt Disney (Ne/Fi), Abraham Lincoln (Fi/Ne), Barrack Obama (Fi/Se), Johnny Knoxville (Se/Fi)...and these people often get typed as non-Fi in MBTI based on a difference of interpretation, one is MBTI and the other is Jung. I'm not familiar with many standard MBTI typings, since I expect them to be based off of Jungian types first and foremost because of its quality and psychological resonance, but those came to mind from some MBTI websites and threads I saw. I have a difficult time recognizing these certain Introverted Feelers as anything else.

    I heard Bob Dylan is sometimes referred to as INFJ? But he seems really Fi and Se to me.

    On the contrary, I've mentioned celebrities who are typed Fi in MBTI, yet I personally see no resonance to Jungian Introverted Feeling, like Britney Spears (Si/Fe), Audrey Hepburn (Si/Fe), and Robin Williams (Fe/Si) to name a few. I can't be certain to say any of them were accurately typed Fi functionally using MBTI, but at least thought of as Fi in the sense of their more apparent "FP" traits. The Jungian Psychological Types is really great material and I recommend that everyone read about each type if they haven't already. It's as basic as you can get.

  3. #33
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    1,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    Yeah, my simplistic view on Fi and other J functions is that they are all black boxes that take in lots of inputs (such as values) and decides the 'best' solution based on a weighting system. Fi gives more weight to the things that you've listed more than the logical ones. And the weightage will be a personal and seemingly arbitrary one. The values themselves are mostly separate from Fi the decision-making process and there's nothing at all that forces Fi to only use 'positive' values. We can be as vindictive as any type if we feel we are wronged
    You know, I've read a lot worse descriptions of the functions than that.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  4. #34
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    From his most famous description of the types:

    Introverted feeling in general.

    Dominant introverted feeling


    This description is very different from your average MBTI Fi description. It's portrayed as a cold, internally manipulative function rather than a system of values and feelings (or even the values/feelings themselves, as some descriptions allude to).

    How many relate to the description, regardless of MBTI type? How many MBTI Fi doms don't relate to it? Any similar descriptions? (I recall at least one other description that portrayed Fi like this, but I can't find it)

    I relate to it a lot. More than any other type description. Yet when it comes to MBTI types, I'll relate to Ts more, precisely because I fit this Fi description pretty well. I don't relate to the T functions themselves, but the behavioural descriptions will put me much closer to MBTI Ts than Fs.
    I relate to it save for this part:

    Although in the normal type, the tendency, above alluded to, to overpower or coerce the object once openly and visibly with the thing secretly felt, rarely plays a disturbing role, and never leads to a serious attempt in this direction, some trace of it, none the less, leaks through into the personal effect upon the object, in the form of a domineering influence often difficult to define. It is sensed as a sort of stifling or oppressive feeling which holds the immediate circle under a spell. It gives a woman of this type a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious. This power is derived from the deeply felt, unconscious images; consciousness, however, readily refers it to the ego, whereupon the influence becomes debased into personal tyranny. But, wherever the unconscious subject is identified with the ego, the mysterious power of the intensive feeling is also transformed into banal and arrogant ambition, vanity, and [p. 495] petty tyranny. This produces a type of woman most regrettably distinguished by her unscrupulous ambition and mischievous cruelty. But this change in the picture leads also to neurosis.
    The danger is in egocentricity.

  5. #35
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think you're reading this through your own bias.
    Everybody does that. What can be brought against everything doesn't need to be brought against one thing.

  6. #36
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    That's a good question. Several famous people who seem to have that quality of Introverted Feeling off the top of my head are Oprah Winfrey (Ne/Fi), Carrie Fisher (Ne/Fi), Walt Disney (Ne/Fi), Abraham Lincoln (Fi/Ne), Barrack Obama (Fi/Se), Johnny Knoxville (Se/Fi)...and these people often get typed as non-Fi in MBTI based on a difference of interpretation, one is MBTI and the other is Jung. I'm not familiar with many standard MBTI typings, since I expect them to be based off of Jungian types first and foremost because of its quality and psychological resonance, but those came to mind from some MBTI websites and threads I saw. I have a difficult time recognizing these certain Introverted Feelers as anything else.

    I heard Bob Dylan is sometimes referred to as INFJ? But he seems really Fi and Se to me.

    On the contrary, I've mentioned celebrities who are typed Fi in MBTI, yet I personally see no resonance to Jungian Introverted Feeling, like Britney Spears (Si/Fe), Audrey Hepburn (Si/Fe), and Robin Williams (Fe/Si) to name a few. I can't be certain to say any of them were accurately typed Fi functionally using MBTI, but at least thought of as Fi in the sense of their more apparent "FP" traits. The Jungian Psychological Types is really great material and I recommend that everyone read about each type if they haven't already. It's as basic as you can get.
    I agree that Audrey Hepburn and Robin Williams are Fe but I don't know about Britney Spears? Pretty sure she's ESFP or ISFP.

    I don't know about Johnny Knoxville but I'd probably guess he was actually STP, not SFP. I could be wrong, but STP just seems to make more sense for him.

    I entirely agree with you about Bob Dylan. Definitely ISFP. INFJ for him is just silly.

    Oprah as ENFP? I don't think so. She's very Je.

  7. #37
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Jung describes Fi as a function in which one can act "free of conscience". Perhaps to an onlooker, this could be the case, but the root of the issue is that Fi leads the individual by his own virtues. In fact, the other side of the story is that Fi could be the driving force behind a guilty conscience in the mind of someone who is surrounded by people who aren't even bothered by the particular individual's actions.

  8. #38
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    On the contrary, I've mentioned celebrities who are typed Fi in MBTI, yet I personally see no resonance to Jungian Introverted Feeling, like Britney Spears (Si/Fe), Audrey Hepburn (Si/Fe), and Robin Williams (Fe/Si) to name a few.
    I disagree with Hepburn...I think she is prototypical INFP (enneagram 9). I think people are seeing the less fluffy aspects of Fi in the description & going to the other extreme in their impression: not noting the fact that Fi is a mindset still focused on an inner vision of perfection in regards to what is moral, aesthetic, HUMAN. It's not a practical form of Feeling, which is why it's associated with expressions in art, poetry, religion, and "acts of an almost heroic character". Hepburn doesn't strike me as a nurturing, cuddly type, but an idealistic humanitarian leading by example? Yes, and that IS in-line with how Fi thinking manifests.


    I broke up & paraphrased Van Der Hoop's Fi description because it's less dense than Jung's, but quite similar. Most of it rings true for me. IMO, it describes a quiet, subtly moody person who has strong, personal ideas about the human condition & what is best in relation to it, in very basic, conceptual terms, but it still amounts to judgments of value. The phrase "the deeper aspects of the human spirit" is a nice one, IMO. These ideals are inspired by the inner world, probably the imagination, in an effort to keep them uncontaminated; this is why they resist being affected by others' emotions & feelings & can seem to "rebuff" them. It produces a person who has a struggle with their critical eye of the world & a desire to love it & the people within it. Their ideas are difficult to articulate, and attempts to do so often come out wrong, even offensive, so feelings tend to be expressed directly only in response to a violation (they come out "negatively"). So instead the person guards them, refines them, and expresses them indirectly, proving an influence on others & leading by example more than actively promoting their ideals. The feelings are sort of hoarded up until their power is called upon :P.

    Tangent: In contrast, a Fe type seeks to affect others & expresses a lot because of it. Affecting other people with feeling creates consensus, a sense of unity, and this has obvious positive results, namely peace, productivity, teamwork towards positive results. However, you can easily see how this can go awry if the Fe person uses their influence for bad. Standards become distorted. The Fi type, meanwhile, has been resisting this influence. This can seem uncooperative, dismissive of other people, suggesting the Fi types has NO feeling at all. However, the purity of this feeling has been kept intact, guarded, stored up, so that if needed, they can resist EVIL. Lenore Thomspon does explain this aspect pretty well by noting that Fi is often portrayed in pop culture in stories where evil runs rampant, where few are NOT corrupt, & so a hero is needed to defend & protect what is good. Because that is how Fi shows it's face - in response to violation, in areas where things have gone very bad, and it's able to recognize these violations because it's resisted their influence. Of course, the negative side of this is what I touched on briefly - it can mean resisting positive influence also, seeming uncooperative & unnecessarily individualistic. Of course, in reality, no one is a pure type, so Pe thinking leaves Fi-dom open to some influence.

    Anyhow, I was trying to divide mindset & common visible characteristics, and I got this:

    Basic mindset:

    - Shapes his own feeling-attitudes in accordance with an inner ideal
    - Aims at inner harmony
    - Tries to determine what is right in regards to people & relationships, how to make life beautiful & well-balanced
    - Absolutely certain as to the soundness of their ideals, accompanied by a helpless feeling that it will never be possible to realize them in this world
    - Searching for people & things which embody their ideals
    - Not bound by the judgment of others, as is the Fe type
    - The standard by which they judge their own behavior is an inner moral law, intuitively felt to be binding
    - Even if they are not able to express it clearly in words, they are inwardly quite certain as to what accords with them and what does not.


    Characteristic qualities & visible attitudes:
    - Feeling is hidden, little to indicate person is a Feeling type
    - Vulnerability is marked in this type, due to the gap between ideals & reality
    - Conceals sensitivity with a mask that may be child-like, simple, conventional, impersonal, aloof or friendly
    - Remarkably individual, which comes to light when either making a real connection with someone or standing up for a threatened ideal
    - Contrasted inner security (conviction of feeling) with an outer uncertainty in demeanor, similar to the Ti type
    - Strange mixture of inner tenderness and passionate conviction (sensitive, yet emotionally strong) stemming from deep feeling
    - Outwardly, feelings are not obvious, but expressed indirectly
    - Withdraw into themselves when affected by emotion
    - If & when they do express emotions or feeling, it will only be much later, after they have had time to work it out within themselves.
    - Obstinate resistance to things which don't accord with feelings
    - This resistance can be justified by its fine motive, but its means of expression is often inappropriate
    - Nearly always misunderstood, and tend to resign themselves to it
    - Strong sense of moral duty (moral duty based on inner convictions, not external mores), and faithful undertaking of this duty
    - The strength of their will is less evident than the other rational types (Fe, Te & Ti), because its control is directed inward (ie. self-control), but can unexpectedly come to light, usually in the form of self-imposed moral obligation
    - Moody & easily discouraged, having bouts of cynicism, but regard this as a fault in themselves
    - In a moment of connecting emotionally with someone, a very profound relationship of mutual understanding may suddenly occur, & all the wisdom of their minds will be unlocked to the confidant
    - Sometimes their emotional connections with others will later be broken off just as suddenly and unexpectedly as it was formed, in defense of their own vulnerability
    - Where his feelings are aroused, the person who appeared to be so impersonal, distant, and somewhat insignificant, may suddenly burst out with a personal point of view, expressed with such conviction and such force of feeling that it compels respect.
    - All forms of expression for the deeper aspects of the human spirit in religion and art find great support from these people.


    As Children:
    - Gentle & dreamy & mostly reserved
    - Occasional violent outbursts of emotion
    - Can appear animated & happy in familiar settings/situations and/or with familiar people
    - Resent when circumstances don't correspond to feelings
    - World seems harsh & indifferent to them
    - Show signs of disappointment at a young age, distrusting life
    - Inability to express feelings clearly & realize ideals can lead to a sense of inferiority
    - See this fault (above) as being in themselves, not in others/circumstances, & may suffer from shame, leading them to fall into a deep depression
    - Genuine emotional connection with others can fill them with a quiet, but enormous delight, causing them to see the world anew & embrace nature & humanity like a newfound faith

    Into Adulthood:
    - Happiness will depend on emotional attachments made with other people
    - Less necessary for them than for extroverts to be in regular contact with people
    - Expressions of others' feelings & spiritual experiences in music, art, poetry, & stories helps them feel more at home in the world
    - Develop an inner life carefully hidden from strangers, expressed in private forms like poetry, religion & art - which are also often kept guarded from others

    As Adults:
    - All the riches of the mind develop into a passion inwardly directed towards the highest ideals of harmony, in contrast with the Fe type who focuses on creating an atmosphere of harmony around herself
    - Emanate calm & security without doing much, expressed in indefinite forms, & having a great but indirect influence on the environment, especially as parents over their children
    - A parent of this type can have a greater influence on their child than the devoted & radiant Fe parent, by quietly implanting & fostering their own ideals in them
    - Prove a quiet force that keep respect for morals alive in the world
    - When form is given to inner feeling, every expression is carefully weighed, but accepted social forms will often be ignored & seen as having no significance - OR - they hide their fine feeling using childlike, conventional forms as a mask
    - In spite of ever-repeated collisions with the world and with other people, they can never give up their wish to love them both, as Feeling is directed to making ties & contact with people
    - Whether they become artists or scientists, they are primarily attracted to the problems of the emotional life
    - Take great care & precision in their work (or "cause"), in these situations showing persistence & devotion associated with & used as evidence of Feeling

    Problematic areas:
    - Remains aware of conflicts within & outside of themselves concerning things that don't accord with their ideal, whereas Fe types more easily repress these conflicts
    - Continual comparison of things with ideal requirements gives them an exaggeratedly critical point of view, undermines their self-confidence & confidence in the world & seriously affects their happiness
    - Necessary to recognize that things which are not ideal may still have value & potential
    - Clear intention for harmony expressed through uncertain modes cause misunderstanding again & again in their lives
    - Motivation & activity suffers from frequent moods of discouragement, losing themselves in pessimistic feelings, giving up their efforts to make themselves understood, or to alter their environment; but they usually recover shortly from these moods as they regard them as a fault in themselves

    Other functions:

    Sensing - The instinctual life is governed by feeling, viewing tangible things & physical instincts according to their ideals. They put on less pretense than extroverted types, but physical instincts may be too often suppressed for moral reasons. This leaves a feeling that life is passing them by without any true fulfillment & can make them condemn pleasures & joys if they don't have some higher value (ie. music/art/food snobbery and/or asceticism).

    - Intuition - subject to the inner feeling, it bears more on the inner aspect of feeling than on its expression in other people, gives form to feeling often in images rather than words (more applicable to ISFPs); developed intuition (INFPs) provides great assistance in finding expression of feelings in everyday life & art, may also provide a link with religious life, seeking an inner unity with God & fellow man

    - Thinking - not essential to life for this type, they accept thought-forms as taught & make conscientious use of them, but it's not vital to them. They argue using thinking derived from preconceived attitudes of feeling.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] How can I "develop my Introverted Feeling"?
    By Wonkavision in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 08-04-2013, 05:25 AM
  2. [INTJ] INTJ's Introverted Feeling - Child (Puer/Puella)
    By Zhash in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 01-04-2010, 09:06 AM
  3. Why do introverts feel drained from socialization?
    By NewEra in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-22-2009, 06:42 PM
  4. [ISTJ] ISTJs and Introverted Feeling
    By raz in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-19-2009, 04:09 PM
  5. [MBTItm] Introverted Feeling...
    By entropie in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-28-2009, 02:09 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO