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  1. #31
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    NTPs are better at trolling, have to give it to you guys. you're funnier about it.

  2. #32
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    more devil's advocacy
    -NTPs are easier to be honest with. I can't stand the way some Fs get offended by things without understanding what the person was really talking about (although is is more prevelant in FJs than FPs)
    - NTPs are good with technical stuff. NFPs are like "what the fuck is this thing?!"
    - similarly, NTPs DOMINATE the internet marketplace
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    NTPs are better at trolling, have to give it to you guys. you're funnier about it.
    But INTJs ultimately win that one, IMO.

  4. #34
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    okay, you asked for it
    1) fighting passionately for their convictions (Joan of Arc)
    So what exactly is the skill here? Affecting change? I'm not sure passionate fighting is a good tool for that. I would bet that most if not all the NFPs that you're thinking about got executed or assassinated. Amirite?

    2) appreciation of art and beauty (large number of NFP artists, performers and musicians)
    Your examples are of people who create art rather than appreciate art, and even then, we could get into a debate about whether they're really making art or just hanging up urinals. But let's say you were talking about "sensitivity to art." I'm not sure NFPs will win that, and, it's very hard to quantify, if not define. If you want to try, go for it.

    3) seducing the opposite sex (Casanova)
    Nah. NTPs will seduce you slowly and for years to come. NFPs will seduce you faster, but you'll get over it sooner when you start getting tired of their obsessions and habits.

    4) better fashion sense overall (large number of NFP fashion designers)
    Male or female? This might be determined by gender rather than personality.

    5) inspiring people (
    They may just be inspiring people who are similar to them who share their values, in which case they're not really inspiring at all, just calling attention to what the people already believe. It's more impressive to inspire someone who doesn't already think like you do. I'm too tired to think of examples, but I don't think NFs have won here.

    6) knowing one's self (Fi deals with this thoroughly)
    Complex subject, but I think it's a tie at best.

    7) musical performance (disproportional number of NFP singers)
    Says who? What about quality? How is this different from artistic appreciations, above?

    8) a more indivualistic set of values (again, Fi as opposed to Fe group values)
    Disagree. A mature NTP will have his values worked out. It's not as rare as you think.

    9) better F/T balance (can't prove this one, just observation)
    You haven't proven any of them!

    10) better with children and pets (personal experience and observation. can't exactly prove this one either)
    Bullshit, I'm the fucking dog whisperer.

  5. #35
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    On a serious note, I think NFPs do love and affection better than NTPs.

  6. #36
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    back to ENFP side
    - NFPs have the Ne-Te loop which gathers tons of information, makes millions of connections, and then acts decisively with point-point-point-point etc. I liken it to a bouncing fireball that is precisely aimed and quickly takes out an army of soldiers 1 at a time
    - NFPs are more snuggly
    - NFPs are the most versatile in career path of any type
    - NFPs are better at getting things without having to have things painstakenly objectively explained for hours (NTJs have this weakness too. brilliant, but having to spend hours verifying everything before they get it)
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    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    back to ENFP side
    Hmmmm

  8. #38
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    So what exactly is the skill here? Affecting change? I'm not sure passionate fighting is a good tool for that. I would bet that most if not all the NFPs that you're thinking about got executed or assassinated. Amirite?



    Your examples are of people who create art rather than appreciate art, and even then, we could get into a debate about whether they're really making art or just hanging up urinals. But let's say you were talking about "sensitivity to art." I'm not sure NFPs will win that, and, it's very hard to quantify, if not define. If you want to try, go for it.



    Nah. NTPs will seduce you slowly and for years to come. NFPs will seduce you faster, but you'll get over it sooner when you start getting tired of their obsessions and habits.


    Male or female? This might be determined by gender rather than personality.



    They may just be inspiring people who are similar to them who share their values, in which case they're not really inspiring at all, just calling attention to what the people already believe. It's more impressive to inspire someone who doesn't already think like you do. I'm too tired to think of examples, but I don't think NFs have won here.

    Complex subject, but I think it's a tie at best.



    Says who? What about quality? How is this different from artistic appreciations, above?



    Disagree. A mature NTP will have his values worked out. It's not as rare as you think.
    You haven't proven any of them!



    Bullshit, I'm the fucking dog whisperer.
    underlined: this is a myth about ENFPs. we're wonderful long term partners and stay sexy till we die

    bold: this is true, but NFPs have their values worked out most of the time by the time they're 20. overall, NFPs beat everyone in this arena by a miles

    bold and underlined: not true. ENFPs inspire people to do crazy things that they normally would never dream of
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  9. #39
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    edited for moar.

    - calmly and kindly present the opposite side of a debate topic they take a clear stance on

    a major weakness of NTPs, ime, is their inability to deal neutrally with issues they have strong opinions about. they are quick to put down and quick to shut out those who do not agree with them.
    We don't need a competition for this. Yer wrong. NTPs are better at staying cool and focusing on facts.

    - deal equally with people who are less mentally quick

    the NTPs i know tend to have a "mental standard" you are expected to meet, or they do not deign that you are worth their time. or, at the very least, they will treat them quite differently than the people they consider to be up to their standards.
    This is a skill?

    - cover up their frustration

    i can feel an angry NTP from 2 rooms away. my NTP family members will come in steaming and storming and growling and snappy and wonder why i look upset. hello? you're acting like an angry boar, and you're wondering why i look a little thrown off balance?

    - understand how their emotions are affecting others

    along the same lines, i don't think NTPs are particularly adept at understanding emotions, because much of their skill is in making decisions without emotional influence. unfortunately, they seem to forget that others are impacted by their emotions, even if they are not.
    BS. NTPs can do this with their observations. Challenge.

    - compliment others

    seriously it's like getting blood from a stone.
    True, but when we give a compliment, it's genuine, well-thought out, and meaningful. Quality > quantity, baby

    - smile genuinely when they are displeased

    i said genuinely, ENTPs, stop smirking.
    So repress their emotions? Okay, you can have that one.

    - not cry when someone completely dismantles one of their pet theories
    That's because you don't have pet theories, duh. (Winning.)

    as for a challenge, if we were together in person, i would stage this competition:

    - given 5 minutes to talk 1-on-1, who makes (test subject) feel more understood?


    i think that given the sheer range of intragroup difference, there will be many NTPs who can perform up to the strengths of NFPs. by the same token, there will be many NFPs who can perform up to the strengths of NTPs. our personality types are a preference, after all, not a capacity. they make us more statistically likely to be better at certain things, but they do not guarantee any results.

    since you're requesting proof (by which i assume you mean examples, because there's no way we can actually prove these things) from us, i would ask for "proof" of this from you.
    Perfect, but we need a few subjects, not just one. So we're testing who can make someone feel understood moar better?

  10. #40
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Hmmmm
    you seem confused. it's because I'm playing both sides of the argument because we have you outnumbered.
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