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  1. #11
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    T seems to consider the human implications of a situation,as irrelevant, except their own.
    Hey, was this explanation designed to imply that T's are selfish jerks?
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    I guess the purely logical version would be: If I don't cut costs in the company, then the company will go under, and we'll ALL be unemployed. So, it's not unconcerned with people and their situations (necessarily) - it just realizes that something drastic has to change.

    I don't know - I guess in this example of firing somebody, the T in all of us is more concerned with making sure that the company lives to see another day - stop the bleeding and keep the company going at all costs, or else there is no company and we're all unemployed.

    The F in all of us is maybe willing to say, "I'd rather stick to my morals and keep my friend, even if it means the company goes under. Screw logic. I'd rather be a true friend."
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Hey, was this explanation designed to imply that T's are selfish jerks?
    I am not implying anything. I am making an objective observation based on several different angles and considerations.
    If you feel it implies something and then you define something from your implication, that is your consideration for yourself, and shows no consideration for the person who said it.
    I have already considered the Human implications of my statement.
    If someone else does as well, they would probably ask me why I have come to these conclusions, not just feel hurt or attacked by them.

  4. #14
    Another awesome member. Curator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I guess the purely logical version would be: If I don't cut costs in the company, then the company will go under, and we'll ALL be unemployed. So, it's not unconcerned with people and their situations (necessarily) - it just realizes that something drastic has to change.

    I don't know - I guess in this example of firing somebody, the T in all of us is more concerned with making sure that the company lives to see another day - stop the bleeding and keep the company going at all costs, or else there is no company and we're all unemployed.

    The F in all of us is maybe willing to say, "I'd rather stick to my morals and keep my friend, even if it means the company goes under. Screw logic. I'd rather be a true friend."
    Unless im a T in disguise, the Bolded part sounds more like F to me, not wanting to get rid of people, but doing so because you care about everyone who is part of the company, and the company itself, that I think would take a heavier dose of F to care for that many people...hehe...

    the crossed out part sounds more like a clearly T boss I had at wal-mart, great guy, great friend, terrible boss ,NOT because he was a T, but because of the way he used that T, people he was friends with got special treatment, because he was lonely, as most people did not understand him, considered him weird, and did not like to hangout with him...so those who did like him, he was apt to give preferential treatment... so the crossed out part, to me personally, just sounds like an unhealthy sad use of F than it does normal F based logic... basically it seems like you are comparing healthy F to unhealthy F usage...or something like that... rather than T and F.
    You are not powerless, you just need to accept your power for what it is, a part of the whole, no one man can save the world, but you can be a light to those who envelope themselves in darkness, The candle that sparks the inferno.

  5. #15
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I am not implying anything. I am making an objective observation based on several different angles and considerations.
    If you feel it implies something and then you define something from your implication, that is your consideration for yourself, and shows no consideration for the person who said it.
    I have already considered the Human implications of my statement.
    If someone else does as well, they would probably ask me why I have come to these conclusions, not just feel hurt or attacked by them.
    I was totally and completely joking with you and was not hurt by any means.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  6. #16
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curator View Post
    Unless im a T in disguise, the Bolded part sounds more like F to me, not wanting to get rid of people, but doing so because you care about everyone who is part of the company, and the company itself, that I think would take a heavier dose of F to care for that many people...hehe...

    the crossed out part sounds more like a clearly T boss I had at wal-mart, great guy, great friend, terrible boss ,NOT because he was a T, but because of the way he used that T, people he was friends with got special treatment, because he was lonely, as most people did not understand him, considered him weird, and did not like to hangout with him...so those who did like him, he was apt to give preferential treatment... so the crossed out part, to me personally, just sounds like an unhealthy sad use of F than it does normal F based logic... basically it seems like you are comparing healthy F to unhealthy F usage...or something like that... rather than T and F.
    Well, maybe I got it wrong then. I just know the T vs. F battle that rages within myself. My T is like "it doesn't matter if people will be hurt by this, it's just a fact and it has to be done. PERIOD. Deal with it." My F is like, "Yeah, but Phil has been very loyal, isn't it the right thing to do to keep the guy and to return that loyalty to him? Be a true friend."

    But, it may be completely different for each person.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I was totally and completely joking with you and was not hurt by any means.
    Thank you for clarifying.. Human implication considered..

  8. #18
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I have yet to see a conclusion about humans that doesn't have some kind of a priori value judgment in it.
    what I do see are people using what they think is pure logic, but hiding the value part (or being unaware of it) and using a cool, detached style of delivery (or stern and pedantic) to reinforce the argument.

  9. #19
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    I have yet to see a conclusion about humans that doesn't have some kind of a priori value judgment in it.
    what I do see are people using what they think is pure logic, but hiding the value part (or being unaware of it) and using a cool, detached style of delivery (or stern and pedantic) to reinforce the argument.
    I'm not trying to argue in favor of "pure logic" or anything like that. Nor am I trying to establish T as some sort of "cool, detached, coldhearted businessman" type of function. All this stuff is relative - relative to how others may view it.

    I don't want to go down the road of an argument. I don't even want to defend T. I don't care to. Maybe this helps though - I guess I would say that a hardcore T (someone far from the F border) would be very willing, ready, and able to view this employee as a resource/an asset. He would just be able to easily say, "Dude, you're on the chopping block. Pack your stuff up and I need you out of here in 30 minutes. I'm sorry, but that's the way it has to happen." And he wouldn't lose sleep over it that night. Cuz, in his mind he simply did what had to be done from a financial point of view. He just cut 75k off his payroll and now the company can breathe a little more. It's not about "sound cool and detached" - it's just "this guy is productive, this guy is NOT. The guy who is NOT has to go." If he's using T in it's purest form, it's not even a difficult decision. It's a very straightforward, easy decision to make.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  10. #20
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Every character presents a universe, which is our universe:



    Every molecule presents a universe, which is our universe:



    There are better explanations than mine, but mine is one
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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