• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

The Forer effect

How much is the passage like you?

  • 1 - not at all

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • 3 - either way

    Votes: 6 33.3%
  • 4

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • 5 - exactly like me

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I've already seen this/I already know where this is going.

    Votes: 7 38.9%

  • Total voters
    18

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
4,602
How much would you say this passage is like you? 1 is least like you, 5 is most like you.
You have a great need for other people to like and admire you. You have a tendency to be critical of yourself. You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage. While you have some personality weaknesses, you are generally able to compensate for them. Disciplined and self-controlled outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You pride yourself as an independent thinker and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. You have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic. Security is one of your major goals in life.

Don't we all just fall victim to the Forer effect? All this "typing" seems quite silly to me. I think the only way to find out your true personality is through deep reflection and the opinions of people you are close to. And really, what is the point of typing people other than to divide people into groups? Were personality theories created because we all feel the need to fit in somewhere?

Meh... I apologize... I really don't know where I was going with this, but I would appreciate it if you guys would answer the poll.
 

Rail Tracer

Freaking Ratchet
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
3,031
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Yep, those are too general. But just to take part in the poll anyways, I'll say 4.

You have a great need for other people to like and admire you.[Who doesn't to some degree?] You have a tendency to be critical of yourself.[Who isn't] You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage.[Who doesn't believe this?] While you have some personality weaknesses, you are generally able to compensate for them. [Who does not believe this?] Disciplined and self-controlled outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure inside. [so-so on this one] At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. [quite sure everyone does] You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. [kind of.... ummm... who doesn't?] You pride yourself as an independent thinker and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. [These days... well proof IS something] You have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. [quite sure most people learn this while growing up] At times you are extroverted, affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, reserved. [not everyone is totally an introvert or an extrovert...] Some of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic. [yeah] Security is one of your major goals in life. [I'm quite sure enough people want a stable life to live]

Don't have to answer the poll to really know how easily it is to relate to it lol. Quite sure all personality tests are like that. Just that they try to group you in this category or that category.
 

lunalum

Super Senior Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
2,706
MBTI Type
ZNTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
This passage is very subject to the Forer effect, but I haven't seen any type description that was written like this. Give someone a random description that is not of their own type and they are probably not going to relate to it very strongly.
 
G

garbage

Guest
You have a great need for other people to like and admire you. You have a tendency to be critical of yourself. You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage. While you have some personality weaknesses, you are generally able to compensate for them. Disciplined and self-controlled outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You pride yourself as an independent thinker and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. You have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic. Security is one of your major goals in life.

What's that.. probably 3.5/5?

If a type description is too general, it doesn't effectively subdivide the spectrum of personality. If it's too specific, then doesn't describe anyone, as nobody will relate to it. Neither of these are particularly useful, of course, so the key is to strike a meaningful balance.

Give someone a random description that is not of their own type and they are probably not going to relate to it very strongly.

Yeah. When I asked about whether descriptions for members' opposing types fit them, I was actually surprised at how many didn't find much "common ground" with their opposing type.
 

Rail Tracer

Freaking Ratchet
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
3,031
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Yeah. When I asked about whether descriptions for members' opposing types fit them, I was actually surprised at how many didn't find much "common ground" with their opposing type.

Maybe because we see our opposite type as "negative" traits? :shrug: I am quite sure the traits that people see as negative traits will be far more likely to be in the opposite profile because it was made to be the opposite of what you chose.

What we see as opposite types might be answers we chose not to choose because we saw the other choice as a better one. Much like the saying "the lesser of two evils." I mean, if you think about the justice or mercy question, which I am quite sure leads either to T or F as part of the 4 dichotomies. Chances are, if you were like me, I would choose Justice only because always having Mercy isn't the best thing. If I were given the choice, I would rather choose something in between.

This is coming from a guy that has gotten answers ranging from IXXP (mostly,) ENFX, and INFJ.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Eh...I'd say maybe 2 or 3. While I would say I have some "unused capacity" I wouldn't say it's A LOT. I also would not say that I'm extremely disciplined and controlled on the outside, I'm fairly moderate in that area. However, I'd say that description you posted is so vague and general it could be applied to many people, especially adults over 25.

Maybe because we see our opposite type as "negative" traits? :shrug: I am quite sure the traits that people see as negative traits will be far more likely to be in the opposite profile because it was made to be the opposite of what you chose.

What we see as opposite types might be answers we chose not to choose because we saw the other choice as a better one. Much like the saying "the lesser of two evils." I mean, if you think about the justice or mercy question, which I am quite sure leads either to T or F as part of the 4 dichotomies. Chances are, if you were like me, I would choose Justice only because always having Mercy isn't the best thing. If I were given the choice, I would rather choose something in between.

This is coming from a guy that has gotten answers ranging from IXXP (mostly,) ENFX, and INFJ.

Yeah I always balk at the justice or mercy question, and I must lean toward justice because I realize in order to have a fully-functioning society where the highest good is in effect, justice really is the only answer.

However, on a personal everyday basis I can be merciful, depending on the person and situation.

I have a preoccupation with justice that is probably due to Te. I don't know if that's a T/F question or a J/P question.

At any rate, cognitive function theory is a far superior way to type people than the simple four dichotomies.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
You have a great need for other people to like and admire you. You have a tendency to be critical of yourself. You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage. While you have some personality weaknesses, you are generally able to compensate for them. Disciplined and self-controlled outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You pride yourself as an independent thinker and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. You have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic. Security is one of your major goals in life.


I'm going with 3/5. About half fits, but only because it is vague. My favorite wording is "you prefer a certain amount of..." - hahaha! That pretty much allows people to interpret the amount to whatever suits them :D .

I don't think MBTI has a forer effect on me because I don't identify with most of the profiles. Jung's description of Introverted Feeling is the only one which hits home for me. Other INFP profiles are better than the other types, but certainly not 100% accurate.

The point of creating personality typology systems is to categorize different ways of thinking & how it manifests as personality. A lot of people think other people don't make sense or are even inferior simply because they think differently. Jungian theory / MBTI / personality typology opens up communication on the idea that different ways of thinking, different personalities, etc, are not flaws in others. Recognizing these differences can aid communication, self-growth, etc.
 

crack

New member
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
50
IMO:

Takeru explained the problem that makes that passage unfair inherently ("who doesn't agree with ... to some degree/at some times?" (Answer: Very, very, very few, if any. (Which explains why this passage receives so many 'hits.'))).

Luna explains why this passage is unlike credible descriptions of any personality type/system ("I haven't seen any type description that was written like this.").

When it comes to credible personality systems, each 'type' within will be distinct and unique enough to not include everyone (as bologna said, "If a type description is too general, it doesn't effectively subdivide the spectrum of personality." "is not effective" = invalid = not a credible system) - the complete opposite of how the infamous Forer Effect passage is.

The things you mentioned aside from the Forer effect passage seem to be completely unrelated topics to the Forer effect topic ("all this interest in "typing" seems silly to me", "what is the point of typing people?", "were personality theories created because we all feel the need to fit in somewhere?"), though, and I just came here to discuss the Forer effect.
 

Cybin

New member
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
105
MBTI Type
INFP
I find that the type descriptions closest to my type sound more like me than those farther. I see myself in INTP and ISFP than say ESFJ.

The thing with MB in particular, is that there is going to be overlap. There's only 4 functions, and 2 orientations of each. So we have 8 options, and personally I see the axes as one function, like NeSi or FiTe. In the end, there are only so many ways (16 in fact) to rearrange the functions. The potions of INTP I see in myself are different than those of ISFP.

Also, the descriptions are just someone's interpretation of how the combination of functions would be expressed in a person. This is much harder, because behavior isn't as linked to the functions as cognition, which is invisible to the observer. So I also believe the descriptions can cause the Forer effect, but that's not a fault of the system.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I find that the type descriptions closest to my type sound more like me than those farther. I see myself in INTP and ISFP than say ESFJ.

The thing with MB in particular, is that there is going to be overlap. There's only 4 functions, and 2 orientations of each. So we have 8 options, and personally I see the axes as one function, like NeSi or FiTe. In the end, there are only so many ways (16 in fact) to rearrange the functions. The potions of INTP I see in myself are different than those of ISFP.

Also, the descriptions are just someone's interpretation of how the combination of functions would be expressed in a person. This is much harder, because behavior isn't as linked to the functions as cognition, which is invisible to the observer. So I also believe the descriptions can cause the Forer effect, but that's not a fault of the system.

Agree....I can relate to big chunks of many INTP & ISFP profiles, and its because we share a preferred function. When I read an ESxJ profile though, there's nothing that rings true for me. And the descriptions have to be very vague, and often are caricatures more than realistic portraits, because they're describing how a thought process generally appears as personality, and there's obviously a ton of room for variation within a type.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
ah, i did see where you're going with this but tried to vote accurately anyway.

i voted 3/5, holistically. it seems relatively correct, minus a few phrases - but it doesn't feel like it captures my essence very well, if that makes sense. like it says things that are right to an extent, but it doesn't hit on many key words that are important to me. i think that's one strategy i've come to see when considering typing. that what's more important than measuring up to the overall picture is finding certain key words that really make you light up.

some of my favorite moments in my pursuit to figure out my MBTI type were discovering phrases like:
Ability to See Patterns & Connections
who see everyone and everything as part of an often bizarre cosmic whole.
see implications everywhere

it was sort of a :shock: moment when i realized that maybe not everyone thinks like that. i really thought that was just how brains worked. which is kind of naive, but not being able to be in anyone else's brain, what can you do?

DisneyGeek said:
I think the only way to find out your true personality is through deep reflection and the opinions of people you are close to.

i would definitely agree that would result in much more accurate picture of oneself than trying to match up to generalized profiles. in terms of attributes, i might come out matching myself to an INFP profile better, depending on the day. maybe even ENTP. for myself personally, i am very systems-oriented, and so i wanted to know the theory behind the letters. when i learned function theory, i felt like all this MBTI type stuff made a whole lot more sense, and i was able to categorize myself with a peaceful certainty.

And really, what is the point of typing people other than to divide people into groups? Were personality theories created because we all feel the need to fit in somewhere?

i think we all do have that drive, but i also think more pressing for me personally - what drew me to really exploring the MBTI - was the prospect of being able to improve myself by learning about people who are like me. certainly i don't always fit the average ENFP pattern. but more often than not, i hear ENFPs talking about problems i have experienced, too. so typing gives me a way to hone in on potential future problems, and to let me share in the aggregate wisdom of others. it's more efficient than generalized advice because i don't need as much improvement in some areas. it's like breaking the SAT down into verbal and math - of course all things in life are not divided so cleanly, but when you do break them down artificially, you gain in isolation of problem areas. isolating variables, if you will.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
If a type description is too general, it doesn't effectively subdivide the spectrum of personality. If it's too specific, then doesn't describe anyone, as nobody will relate to it. Neither of these are particularly useful, of course, so the key is to strike a meaningful balance.
:yes: Yes.

Also, ftr, if it only applies to you on rare occasions, then it probably isn't a dominant trait. So if you have had two occasions in your life when you've been able to perfectly read someone and feel a deep oneness with them, but the rest of the time you're kind of insensitive and oblivious to other people, you might not be an xNFJ. I dunno - bad example. But I feel like a lot of the Forer effect in the MBTI comes from overthinking and overcomplicating. But then again, I got the correct result on the very first try, so I'm biased.
 
Top