User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 12

  1. #1
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    3,823

    Default At what point do you stop trying to grow and just accept your type?

    After years of practicing social graces, and to some level, mastering their employment when I consciously choose to do so, I can't seem to recalibrate my default setting.

    A few days ago a very respectable lecturer flown in from out of state stopped his presentation mid-sentence to say, "you look like you have a lot of critiques . . . do we need to pause because I'm missing a gaping hole in my logic? You're making me nervous!"

    He is definitely my superior (incidentally, also an NTJ), but my natural concentrating face was so unnerving that he had to pause and say something.

    Do I continue to make a conscious effort to turn on the social graces for my 40 hour facetime, or can I just say, "I gave it my best effort, and I'll employ my learned skills when necessary, but I need to accept that this is me."

    ?
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #2
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Socionics
    INTp
    Posts
    284

    Default

    I think it probably depends partly on how old you are and partly some other stuff I can't say with certainty. For instance, I'm 18 and only discovered mbti sometime last year (?). I thought something was deeply wrong with me because I couldn't focus on anything for any significant duration and because I felt really detached from my environment and other people. It turned out a full ~1-2% of people (INTPs) had the same problem. Now I'm thinking that's just who I am, and I am so relieved.

  3. #3
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername
    At what point do you stop trying to grow and just accept your type?
    Accepting your type and continuing to grow are not mutually exclusive. Everyone should continue to grow, in whatever way is most beneficial and fulfilling for them. But working to become a different type is not productive growth, it is more like self-delusion. As you mention, mastering a basic set of non-preferred skills for use when you consider it helpful is the way to go. As we get older and experience more in life, we may get a bit better with some of these, or even add new ones to the toolbox. As long as we continue to do this, there is nothing wrong with being comfortable in who we are fundamentally.

    BTW, how did you respond to the lecturer? I would have said simply, "no, not at all; please continue", assuming I really didn't have a critique or question.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #4
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 so/sp
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    2,484

    Default

    You got the order mixed up.

    Accept your type first, then grow from it second

  5. #5
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,024

    Default

    If you've been working on your social graces it might feel like a setback and kind of mortifying if someone did this in public. If anyone lacked social graces, as well as being insecure, it was the lecturer since you weren't heckling him or doing anything to disturb the continuity of his lecture.

    As far as growth is concerned, please don't stop growing. Stagnation is worse than death.

  6. #6
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Um, I think that accepting the natural gifts and limitations of your type are important. It's helped me tremendously to accept the fact that I am NFP, and am, to my relief, not failing at life just because I didn't grow up to be an ESTJ or an INTP.

    That being said, we can always grow as human beings, to aspire to be a better developed version of our own type - rather than trying to grow into a another type. That's the difference.

    We have to accept who we are and make the best of it. There's a lot of wisdom in doing that.

  7. #7
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    After years of practicing social graces, and to some level, mastering their employment when I consciously choose to do so, I can't seem to recalibrate my default setting.

    A few days ago a very respectable lecturer flown in from out of state stopped his presentation mid-sentence to say, "you look like you have a lot of critiques . . . do we need to pause because I'm missing a gaping hole in my logic? You're making me nervous!"

    He is definitely my superior (incidentally, also an NTJ), but my natural concentrating face was so unnerving that he had to pause and say something.

    Do I continue to make a conscious effort to turn on the social graces for my 40 hour facetime, or can I just say, "I gave it my best effort, and I'll employ my learned skills when necessary, but I need to accept that this is me."

    ?
    Did you not want to talk with the guy? Social graces could have ensured you an innocuous enough appearance that he didn't even know you were there. Which one were you going for?

    What if that lecturer was offering a social graces opportunity...

    "Ya make me nervus, missy"
    "Why, its yer ideaz, mister."
    "How's that, turtledove?"
    "They make me all.... sweaty."

    Etc.

    A social exchange. A graceless exchange, to be sure, but an exchange... and likely not unpoised if performed well.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #8
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Posts
    5,646

    Default

    Hmm, I think there is a difference between learning social graces (as a useful survival skill) and growing emotionally, as a person by discovering the pleasures of other people's company.

    The graces thing is just a code you can learn by observation that society uses to run more smoothly; learning and applying this is not betraying who you are but a soft skill that makes life easier for yourself and others. Use it when you need it, but KNOW when you need it.
    Developing decent Fe is more than that, if I understand it correctly. It is about connecting with other people, about empathy and your social instinct.

    I am 5w4 sp/so and constantly torn between the desire to be left alone by the world and just do my thing and a certain need for social harmony. For a long time that meant caving in to just about anything in order to avoid conflict and not get sucked up by some emotional vortex. I was taught that if I played nice, the world would repay me in kind. Only that I forgot to grow a spine in the process. That is what I would call very rudimentary Fe.
    I have now started to get into the finer aspects of it: defending my own interests (or juggling them with other people's interests) and it has helped me to become more social and enjoy other people's company more. Because the weight of having to please everybody without even having a clue about half of what is going on is now off my shoulders. My interaction with others has improved considerably because of this.

    My little sister is an ISFP and, in many respects, my complete opposite. She visited me this weekend and it was fascinating to see the world with her eyes. It drains em to turn on Se for too long, for example, but watching her play sports in the sun on a lawn by the river and clearly enjoy herself so much opened my eyes to a world of pleasures that I usually ignore and that are there for the taking. Also, being Fi, she knows exactly what she likes and dislikes, what she values, what she abhores and what she wants for herself and her life. I admire that and can only learn from it.

    Where am I going with all of this? I would say that this developement is a mixture of accepting who you are (detachment is not a desease you must or can fight by raping yourself) and developing new skills or aspects of yourself. And it improves your quality of life if you do it right.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

  9. #9
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    6,748

    Default

    The funny thing is that I picture you with a very serious and focused face. Like you're taking a test all the time.

    Anyway, It never hurts to try to be better, even if you can only keep it up for a short period of time. I think if you truly want to change, be a more rounded person, than over time you can change, (even if it's only slightly better than your baseline.)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  10. #10
    RDF
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    After years of practicing social graces, and to some level, mastering their employment when I consciously choose to do so, I can't seem to recalibrate my default setting.[...]
    As I understand this statement, you've gotten good at appearing more approachable or friendly or whatever when you consciously practice your social skills, but when you relax and go to unconscious default mode, you fall back into old habits--apparently some sort of ferocious scowl, based on your anecdote.

    First off, congrats on mastering your conscious social skills. That's a big accomplishment by itself.

    As for your look when you're not paying attention to your appearance (unconscious "default mode"), I've been working on this as well. You don't mention what measures you've taken to attack this problem, so I'll describe what I've done in my case. It'll sound a little silly, but maybe it'll contain something you can use.

    Anyway, I've found that it's not enough to simply forbid yourself to do something; you have to adopt a new goal and build yourself up to it. For example, it's difficult to simply tell yourself that you want to practice better posture and simply remember to stand up straight when standing around in public. A better approach is to adopt a whole new "look" or attitude: Find a balance point further back on your heels, throw your shoulders back and down, tuck your head back and chin down, and rock on your heels or bob up and down a little bit on your knees like a bored mafioso. Instead of simply banning something (bad posture), you build a whole new positive body awareness to play with. And at first it feels strange, but eventually it feels more and more natural over time to unconsiously seek and fall into that new posture.

    The military does this. They don't just ban bad posture; they give you a whole new body awareness to play with: shoulders back, chest out, and all that. And any ex-military person will tell you: it works. Same with dancing or whatever.

    So to me, success in this respect is just a question of taking the right approach. Don't just ban the scowl. Build a whole new facial posture to aspire to and fall into, in place of the old fierce scowl. If you're attending presentations, then study how you sit and how that affects your head position. Then study your scowl. Look at the scowls of famous actors and actresses. For example, extend your scowl out at the sides and bring up your lower lip a touch, push your chin forward, maybe arch one side of the upper lip a touch, and you can have a very mobile, changeable type of scowl like De Niro. Not at all forbidding, but plenty of attitude and plenty of expression if you do it right. And it's easy to play with it and fall into unconsciously over time.
    http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&s...w=1536&bih=892

    Again, it sounds silly. But my point is this: Don't just ban the old; build something new to fall into. It'll probably mean spending some time in front of the mirror seeing what works for you. And then spend some time really looking at favorite actors and actresses on TV and in movies. They spend a lot of time in front of the mirror honing their look and making it natural/unconscious. (Example: Clint Eastwood was a non-smoker, but the nasty taste of cheroots caused his face to screw up perfectly for his Western roles, so he made them part of his act.) Borrow the tricks of the pros and make like a favorite actor or actress. Create a whole new facial attitude, something you can play with in bored moments and then fall into naturally over time.
    http://www.soundonsight.org/throwback-clint-eastwood/

Similar Threads

  1. [E1] 1's, how do you get yourself to relax and have fun?
    By Rail Tracer in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 09-15-2012, 12:25 PM
  2. Do you guys try to assign a type to everyone you meet too?
    By theniteshadow3 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 02-08-2011, 04:34 AM
  3. At what age did you learn how to play chess ?
    By Virtual ghost in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 11-11-2009, 01:46 PM
  4. [MBTItm] Do you really want to hurt me? (here's your chance!)
    By miss fortune in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 106
    Last Post: 01-02-2008, 09:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO