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  1. #21
    morose bourgeoisie
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    [QUOTE=INTPness;1520433]I understand that sometimes MBTI is given more importance than it should have. But, if we really think MBTI is a bunch of overblown jibberish, then why do we all keep coming back to this site and reading/learning about it? If we're all the same and N/S differences are just a figment of our imagination, then why do we even bother to spend time on a website dedicated to MBTI?

    What I'm saying is, the reason I come here is because I think there is merit in MBTI. I think there really are differences in our tendencies and the way we tend to behave. Tend is a very key word because it implies that it is not absolute or "all the time". But, it also implies that the differences are real - they really do exist. If they didn't, I wouldn't be here trying to learn about other people's personalities and why they are different from me. If we were all the same and MBTI was completely bogus, I'd have no reason to come here.[/QUOTE]

    What I'm saying is, the reason I come here is because I think there is merit in Astrology. I think there really are differences in our tendencies and the way we tend to behave. Tend is a very key word because it implies that it is not absolute or "all the time". But, it also implies that the differences are real - they really do exist. If they didn't, I wouldn't be here trying to learn about other people's personalities and why they are different from me. If we were all the same and Astrology was completely bogus, I'd have no reason to come here.[QUOTE]

    Poor science is similar to pseudo-science.

  2. #22
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    I don't think that personality theory is overblown - I think there's a lot of truth in Jung.

    The problem isn't personality theory in and of itself, but the failure of people to understand what the functions are and what they actually do - like the difference between Si and Se, and what Si detail really means for SJs, and how people with Ti (including INFJs and INTPs) can be annoyingly (to me) over-precise and detailed in their own special, abstract way.

    The problem is Keirsey stereotypes, people lumping all Sensors or Intuitives together instead of seperating Si and Se/Ni and Ne, and also people simply not understanding what the functions actually entail, and how they manifest themselves in a personality.

    I know - it took me almost two years to finally understand it, to really get through all the muck and confusion and misinformation and the mixing up of different theories, to finally study and grasp Jung better.

  3. #23
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    ...................Poor science is similar to pseudo-science.
    This begs the question: Why do you frequent this website if it's nothing but hogwash?
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  4. #24
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    ...............and how people with Ti (including INFJs and INTPs) can be annoyingly (to me) over-precise and detailed ...........
    Exactly. The fact that we (INTP's) are this way shows that there is merit to the system. I don't deny that we can be annoying pricks with our heads up our own rear ends on many occasions. That just shows how we tend to be different from other types.

    Edit: By the way, that doesn't mean that we can't change or shouldn't try to change our ways. We should! We should not aspire to be royal pains in the neck. I'm just saying, it's true that there is a tendency within the type to be annoyingly over-precise and detailed.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  5. #25
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Exactly. The fact that we (INTP's) are this way shows that there is merit to the system.
    -> I judge the system as being precise and having merit.

    -> The system says I'm good at judging precision.

    -> Therefore, I examine the system,
    and
    -> I judge the system as being precise and having merit.

    rinse and repeat.

    What are you saying?
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  6. #26
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    -> I judge the system as being precise and having merit.

    -> The system says I'm good at judging precision.

    -> Therefore, I examine the system,
    and
    -> I judge the system as being precise and having merit.

    rinse and repeat.

    What are you saying?
    The system having merit has nothing to do with INTP's being precise. If someone had said, "ENFJ's bug me because they are always organizing group functions", then I would have said:

    The fact that ENFJ's do that, and the fact that they are different than other types, gives merit to the system. It gives merit to the fact that each of the 16 types tend towards cerain preferences/functions/behaviors.

    I wasn't necessarily saying anything specific about INTP's in my post. Marmie Dearest pointed out that INTP's are meticulous and that bugs her, so I just took it a step further by saying that is one of the things that gives merit to the INTP archetype/personality profile and MBTI as a whole.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  7. #27
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    Yeah. No matter their type, the practically-minded person would realize that "big picture" thinking is good in some situations and "detail-oriented" thinking is good in others. Many situations require a bit of both. Oh, and the person should be able to handle both to some extent.

    Without some sense of a big-picture focus, your boss's boss could be absolutely bleeding efficiency, since energy is wasted on dealing with minutia--death by a thousand papercuts, as it were. However, if some relevant details are missed, decisions will be made with incomplete information, which also has the potential to destroy an organizaiton.

    Your more personal example is another good one--discussing irrelevant matters can be a waste of time and energy if your goal is to come to a common understanding of some more important, overarching issue, and it doesn't take a self-proclaimed intuitive to realize that.


    In any case, whether or not it's a reliable framework, MBTI is supposed to address preferences rather than capabilities, and it should open us up to a wider range of capabilities and perspectives. The OP serves as a good reminder of that.

  8. #28
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    ...that Sensors are stuck in details.

    I've realized lately that I hate, hate, hate when we get stuck in discussing points that really have no effect on the matter at hand.
    Oh, I hate this too.

    I do think that it could be an ST thing. Alot of STs like getting quickly to the point it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by raminda View Post
    Yeah, this have never made sense to me either. I'm the opposite to you, though; an intuitive who's very detail oriented. You have to get down to details to get to the interesting Ne-connections I claim...
    I can be detail oriented when needed for my job or in areas of real interest to me. I relate to using details as a means of making interesting connections.

    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Yea, many NTJ's are very detail oriented as well. I'm fairly easy to bounce between details and big picture, with a slightly better focus on details. I wouldn't say I ever "get caught up" in them though. That's counter productive.
    I also find it easy to jump back and forth between details and big picture and can focus on either one depending on the situation. I do get caught up on details from time to time, this is most often the case when I'm under stress, I'll sometimes fixate on a detail that later I realize was rather insignificant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yeah Si is more detail oriented than Se, and I elaborated on Si because of that, and also because I understand it better.
    I think Si and Se are equally detail oriented but in a different way. Si is more about selectivity and depth of details while Se is more likely to be indiscriminately observant of details. Se is more about breadth than depth. For example, Si may not notice every little detail in its environment. It doesn't necessarily pick up details like a sponge like Se would. Si is more likely to focus primarily on details in an area of interest or what they deliberately choose to focus on. Se is less likely to say "I'm going to pay attention to X." Se just takes in the environment as it is. I think Se probably captures a greater number of details because they don't have the limited focus that Si does but Si absorbs them more deeply.
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  9. #29
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    The problem isn't personality theory in and of itself, but the failure of people to understand what the functions are and what they actually do - like the difference between Si and Se, and what Si detail really means for SJs, and how people with Ti (including INFJs and INTPs) can be annoyingly (to me) over-precise and detailed in their own special, abstract way.

    The problem is Keirsey stereotypes, people lumping all Sensors or Intuitives together instead of seperating Si and Se/Ni and Ne, and also people simply not understanding what the functions actually entail, and how they manifest themselves in a personality.
    Agreed.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #30

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    It's useful as a system to look at yourself. A language to talk amongst people familiar with the lingo. That's as far as I'd push it.

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