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  1. #21
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    Well, I learned about the Biological model of I/E in my Theories of Personality class. I asked my teacher how well it related to Jung's version and she told me that there was some overlap but overall it is an unexplored area. So I thought I would do some casual exploration...

    Basically, I's are more quickly and strongly aroused when exposed to external stimulation. Introverts are also more easily overwhelmed by the stimulation of parties, loud music, or social gatherings while extraverts find this kind of stimulation pleasant. On the other end of the coin, extraverts are quickly bored by slow-moving movie plots and soft music while introverts often find these subtle sources of stimulation engaging. When trying to study in a library, research has found that introverts typically will pick quiet study rooms away from all stimulation while extraverts prefer to sit out in the open amidst the stimulation.

    Another difference, according to the biological model, is that extraverts are much more sensitive to the idea of rewards. This leads to impulsive behavior which makes them more likely to be found on a roller coaster or at a party. However, this also means that if an extravert thought going on a walk alone would be pleasing, they would be more likely than an introvert to actually do it.

    Although I do not wish to address this piece of information as I do the others, research in the biological approach has found that extraverts are happier. This is, in short, due to their ability to appreciate and pursue social experience (commonly found to be a key factor in overall happiness) and their ability to appreciate rewards. As far as rewards go, research has found that extraverts are more pleased with their own accomplishments than introverts, and do not react as badly to failure as introverts. (Of course the problem I see with this is that social experience and rewards do not even begin to describe what constitutes happiness. These two things are items that are measurable by experimentation while I'm sure at least some of the things introverts find happiness in are not as easily measurable. I personally don't see happy as something experienced but rather something obtained.)

    So, in summary: Introverts are much more sensitive to stimulation than extraverts.

    So, I wish just wondering if whoever reads this feels like it is in some way descriptive of their MBTI I/E preference? I personally feel like the biological model of an introvert fits me well.

    Thanks.
    I think these descriptions fit the MBTT models well.

    I agree with you about the happiness thing.

  2. #22
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticangel02 View Post
    I know you don't want to really go into this one, but what makes you believe 'happiness' is something someone must achieve, or obtain?

    Because personally, I consider myself a 'happy person'. I wake up on an ordinary day, and my default mood is, at least, 'pleasant', and most of the time the rest of my day I feel 'happy' (although exactly what 'happy' is depends on who's talking about it - here I mean something along the lines of a 'pleasant contentness'). I haven't done anything to achieve this, I just am.

    I'd be curious to know what your definition of happiness is, what your normal state of being is, and how one goes about achieving 'happiness'?
    Happiness for me is satisfaction in all aspects of my life. I agree that happiness depends on who is talking about it. We all have different ideas, and I'm sure in one way or another we are all correct. By working towards my goals and looking with hope to the future I consider myself a happy person. By carefully exploring who I am as a person and making choices that reflect who I wish to be, I consider myself living a happy life; even if at that moment I am not a happy person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    I know you said you don't wish to address this as much as the rest but, to me, it is critically important. These ascertions are so invalid that I have to question all the rest that went before it in the testing. It smacks of major subjectivity, thus, indicating the rest may not be that objective. Happiness or lack of it is based on social activity? As a "biological introvert," I strongly disagree. Happiness is a by-product of actualizing choices. As for "rewards," stated as pertaining to I/E... to me its a matter of quantity vs quality. I find the extrovert less intense. Their experience more diffuse. Example: Strong background activity or loud background noise while conversing with multiple people disallows biological/mental intense focus on any of them.... preferred by the extrovert as "energizing." For an introvert, these are described as "distracting" implying a desire for intense focus. Following that line of thought, what an introvert experiences has more intensity and that includes happiness. Abundance is offset by a deeper experience of less. Therefore, I would say, they are equal but arrived at differently.
    All of what I stated comes directly from a text book called "Theories of Personality", so I assume that even though it is subjective it is a prominent theory within the field of Psychology. It was a subsection within the Biological I/E approach that discussed that extraverts test (through experimentation) as happier than introverts. It's not my opinion. It's the opinion of the experimenters.

    I imagine past surveys asked people about different aspects of their life (i.e. social activity and response to rewards) and then asked them to rate their happiness on a scale 1 to 10. People probably consistently rated themselves happier when they also rated social activity and positive responses to rewards high. They are just going with what they can at least show evidence for. They can't state anything they don't have evidence for without losing all credibility, and since they made it into a text book chapter I would assume that they do have adequate evidence to say what they have. Plenty of people probably don't agree with what they claim to have found (including me), but they can't deny these claims because they use the same kind of statistical testing all psychologists use and they have come up with significant results. That's all that can be said.

    I honestly think I should have omitted that part from my post.
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  3. #23

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    Is it possible that someone can "switch" part way through life? (Not on purpose, mind you)

    Can someone be a biological introvert or extrovert for most of their life, and due to long-term illness (or recovering from long-term illness or some other long-term change in biochemistry) switch to being the other?

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  4. #24
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    hmm
    i hate listening to music on a stereo
    but in my headphones its the best

    i heard introverts have a problem with facial expressions.....
    but i am very good with them and conveying emotions with them

    is that more of a bodily intelligence thing, being aware of one's self, or what ?

    and i heard introverts don't have a lot of energy,yet i have a surplus
    whats up with that ?
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  5. #25
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    Basically, I's are more quickly and strongly aroused when exposed to external stimulation. Introverts are also more easily overwhelmed by the stimulation of parties, loud music, or social gatherings while extraverts find this kind of stimulation pleasant. On the other end of the coin, extraverts are quickly bored by slow-moving movie plots and soft music while introverts often find these subtle sources of stimulation engaging.
    According to this, I (INFJ) am more biologically Extraverted than my ENFJ husband Not that I'm very biologically extraverted, but he's very strongly b. introverted - except when he gets into a B.E. mood, like when he's jamming with friends, in which case he will love loud noises and music and social gatherings. But the rest of the time, those things completely overwhelm him, to the point of making him physically ill and/or mentally depressed.

    Another difference, according to the biological model, is that extraverts are much more sensitive to the idea of rewards. This leads to impulsive behavior which makes them more likely to be found on a roller coaster or at a party. However, this also means that if an extravert thought going on a walk alone would be pleasing, they would be more likely than an introvert to actually do it.
    On this point, my husband would be the B.E. one while I'd be the B.I. one. Rewards don't motivate me one bit, that's even a major problem in my life, but they do somewhat motivate him.

    As far as rewards go, research has found that extraverts are more pleased with their own accomplishments than introverts, and do not react as badly to failure as introverts.
    And here we go back to me being the B.E. one: my husband reacts very badly to failure or even to *perceived* failure, and he always seems shy/reluctant to genuinely appreciate his own accomplishments as though he didn't actually do anything really worthwhile. I'm always having to tell him that he did do great and that he should feel proud of what he accomplished.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    All of what I stated comes directly from a text book called "Theories of Personality", so I assume that even though it is subjective it is a prominent theory within the field of Psychology. It was a subsection within the Biological I/E approach that discussed that extraverts test (through experimentation) as happier than introverts. It's not my opinion. It's the opinion of the experimenters.

    I imagine past surveys asked people about different aspects of their life (i.e. social activity and response to rewards) and then asked them to rate their happiness on a scale 1 to 10. People probably consistently rated themselves happier when they also rated social activity and positive responses to rewards high. They are just going with what they can at least show evidence for. They can't state anything they don't have evidence for without losing all credibility, and since they made it into a text book chapter I would assume that they do have adequate evidence to say what they have. Plenty of people probably don't agree with what they claim to have found (including me), but they can't deny these claims because they use the same kind of statistical testing all psychologists use and they have come up with significant results. That's all that can be said.

    I honestly think I should have omitted that part from my post.
    Thanks Wedekit (sp?) I guess that's why I've seen opinions, statistical and scientific "proofs" change so often and much of it is diametrically opposed to another. Much of society is putting little stock in it anymore as a result. I'm not sure of all the reasons why this happens but do know internal "politics" is often involved. And, of course, it seems to happen most in the rather subjective field of psychology. Anyone who has raised kids and kept up with the prevailing "research" on that can attest the changes.... each with their "sound" backup.

  7. #27
    Junior Member Little Buddha's Avatar
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    I'm currently writing an article about introversion/extraversion based on results of neuropsychological research and the results have now generated strong evidence. The biological basis for I/E seems to have something to do with cortical arousal, more specific the level of dopamine in the cortex. Researchers claim that introverts have a naturally higher level of dopamine i the cortex and thus have a lower threshold for stimuli (especially noise and visual stimuli) before getting dopamine overloaded. This may come through as sensitivity towards loud noises and visually messy places (i.e. shopping malls).

    As a biological introvert I very easily get overwhelmed by places with lots of people (i.e. a shopping mall, a discotheque or Cairo) generating uncontrolled movements, assymetrical noises and numeral visual stimulants.
    This renders me in a state of total confusion and subsequently results in fatigue if I stay in places like that for too long.
    After an experience like that I normally regenrate by lying flat on the bed starring at the ceiling and staying totally and utterly self absorbed for a long time.

    Regarding the extraverts staying home rather than go to a party I guess it's got to do with what kind of intellectual stimulation you find among a bunch of drunk people and thus lies beyond the biological I/E question.
    My boyfriend, an ENTP, feels the same way about parties thus seeking stimulation in what generates new ideas and creativity in his mind (this might include staying home saturday night writing or reading), rather than wasting time on superficial unsatisfying conversations.

    I think "happiness" is such a complex idea. It's strictly subjective and I guess one must achieve happiness in pursuing his own values.
    For instance, if someone finds happiness in reading the newspaper he could experience happiness on a daily basis. If someone finds happiness in personal freedom, it might be more difficult to achieve when you have an obligation to work, daily necessary routines etc.

  8. #28
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    That's very interesting, and makes a lot of sense. Introversion and extraversion seem to be driven by needs that are are "hard wired" into the brain, as apart of the rest of the chemistry of the brain that shapes who a person is. The other scales of People/Task-orientation and Cooperative/Pragmatic (which tie in with T/F and J/P) would stem from this as well.

  9. #29
    Junior Member Little Buddha's Avatar
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    Oh, another point: There are some inconsistency among researchers in the field of neuroscience and personality. Roughly you can group them into neuropsychologists and neurogeneticists.
    The former focuses mainly on taskperformance (including behaviour studies) combined with physiological measurements (i.e. salivation, heart rate, perspiration, brain blood flow, brain waves) whereas the latter focuses mainly on genetic analyses (mapping and defining genes) combined with questionnaires on whether you like parties, being social and so on.

    This results in different discourses among the research groups, which then again makes it somewhat difficult to compare and combine the research results generated by the two groups. The results often get mixed up in the public because reporters or other intermediaries often don't recognize this relation.
    One thing though they both agree upon is that it's got something to with dopamine levels.

    Personally I prefer the neuropsychologist view because it is by far the most objective way of studying I/E. They rarely involve the opinions of the tested person thus more or less minimizing subjectivity in the test results.

    So I guess, what I want to say is that the questions about attending parties, being happy, reactions to reward, liking or disliking fast music or generally how you feel about something and so on leaves little evidence, as some of the comments posted previously clearly indicates.

    Ps. I'm very much an introvert but I also like death metal.

  10. #30
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    Thats very interesting... I'll reread it and comment more later. I do think I probably don't go for things as fearlessly as many people, and it may be due to introvertedness (or possibly a host of other factors). I'm working on fixing it though.

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