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  1. #1
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Default ESTJs and ENTJs: outgoing but with few friends? And how to tell these types apart?

    I may have the wrong end of the stick on this, but I am wondering if ESTJs and ENTJs would be types who are outgoing in the sense that they have pretty good social skills and take an interest in people. They might be the type who have animated conversations with perfect strangers. However, despite appearing to be surrounded by people, they might then describe themselves as having few friends, which is presumably some kind of realisation that they don't get close to people easily or perhaps make the necessary effort to properly be "friends".

    Does this sound accurate, or does it sound more typical of another type or types? I am thinking of a couple of guys I know whose types I find hard to determine, but I suspect they may be ESTJ or ENTJ, and the above fits them fairly well. One said something in a self-deprecating manner about just "not being bothered" to properly cultivate friendships. However, he seems to be loyal to the friends he has, that's my impression, and the animated convos with strangers thing also fits.

    Are ESTJs and ENTJs hard to tell apart? What would distinguish them? I find both types a bit of a mystery, though I suspect I've known quite a few ESTJs, but not at close quarters.
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  2. #2
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I know any ENTJs IRL, but I do know at least one ESTJ, and he's kind of like this. He's perfectly friendly, and I almost feel bad for saying this, but he just doesn't have the depth for any real meaningful friendships. You start talking to him, and the conversation inevitably turns to what he's done this past week. He's not selfish, but he is very unintentionally "self-absorbed." I think in his case though, it may have more to do with him having mild asperger's than with his MBTI type. It's a little hard to say.
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  3. #3
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    What does outgoing mean?

    I know an ESTJ who has terrible social skills and few friends because of it, but seems to have a strong need to be around people.

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    Extroverted doesn't mean has lots of friends or even wants to be around people.

    It means Te dominance, external focus, et al.

  5. #5
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Sooo...what type(s) fit my description above? or is it just too vague?

    I wouldn't say these guys seem self-absorbed. Well, at least, in the case of the one I know somewhat better, he may enumerate his week point by point to you (party interesting, partly boring) but also tends to remember what you discussed last time and ask you point by point about how those things in your life are going. And if you have a problem he will give some very specific practical advice. Perhaps in terms of the friends thing he just can't be bothered to do this for a lot of people...?
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    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Do they have any interests in common? If so, plse state so we can give you a problem for the two of them to solve. Their responses might illustrate differences a bit more.

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    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Do they have any interests in common? If so, plse state so we can give you a problem for the two of them to solve. Their responses might illustrate differences a bit more.
    You mean the two guys I'm thinking of, specifically? Hm...they don't know each other...they might have some common interests, not quite sure...anyway I am not sure what type either of them are...I'd have to think about that

    EDIT: Any general observations on the differences between ENTJ and ESTJ would be of interest too. LIke I said, I really don't know much about either, and I just have a feeling that these people are one or the other, but it's all rather vague, probably partly because my unfamiliarity with Te-doms...!
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  8. #8
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    The behavior you've described could also be seen in a Ti user.

  9. #9
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Both types have a high "expressed" behavior (meaning they tend to approach others), but a low "responsive" behavior. Meaning their attitude is more likely "don't call me; I'll call you". They respond to people only on their own terms. Even though they appear people focused, from the high expressiveness, they are ultimately task-focused. This come out in the "directive" and "structure-focused" behaviors.

    The difference between them, aside from the concrete vs abstract focus, will be that the ENTJ is pragmatic, while the ESTJ is cooperative. the pragmatic will be even quicker to act and "do what works", while the cooperative will still check for "what's right", and thus be a bit slower to act on his own authority. Of course, translating this into the functions, an Ni focus will be quicker to venture into the unknown than Si.
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  10. #10
    don't fence me in sui generis's Avatar
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    I kind of relate to what you've said in the OP. It's not that I don't have friends, even close friends, but I don't know tonnnns of people and have tons of casual friends the way the ENxx's in my life do. I do have animated conversations with strangers, but I don't have, like, a clique of my own anymore.

    I can't really give you information on differentiating ENTJ from ESTJ, as I'm right on the borderline myself.
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