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  1. #81
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    What I found funny was the indignation that two blatantly obvious blunt thinkers, would dare to impinge on what's viewed as Feeler turf!

    But it really does have to do with people's interpretation of the definition of EQ. ExTJs are pretty good at cutting to the chase. We tend to be able to see through other people's shit and try to focus on the tasks at hand. We're also sensitive to manipulation, as in, part of the cutting to the chase.

    Now, if EQ is viewed as smoothing feathers, my opinion is that it's not our preference. We can do it and some, unlike myself, are very good at it. But once again, it's not our preference since there are usually more efficient routes to getting things done.
    If that was directed partly at me, it wasn't my intention to undermine the skills of EXTJs.

    As EI has been defined here, I'm in no way surprised that INFPs suck at it. I'm terrible at knowing the right to say and do to alter a person's emotional state in the moment, say to bring comfort; nor am I very emotionally zen internally. I certainly know many EXTXs that are much better at all this than me and I admire them for it.

    My brand of 'EI' is more in understanding another's deep emotional states and possibly advising them on that, and even then its often distant and awkward. Its a sort of deep empathy without the skills to effectively convey it or take advantage of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I'm not saying ENTJs can't be emotionally intelligent (of course they can!!! ) but I think emotional intelligence also requires being able to nurture, comfort, counsel, and empathize with other people readily. It also requires acceptance and analyzation of feelings.
    I think EXTJs can be good at these things. You don't need to experience by proxy every ounce another is feeling to sympathise, comfort or counsel.

    But you are right. I do feel like the definition of EI is excluding a few essential elements. Perhaps they are considered less important because they don't directly assist in the management of emotions, if not interfere with it. However, just because some aspects of what I would deem 'EI' aren't goal driven, doesn't mean that they lack in any value.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  2. #82
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I actually did some research on this Thompson character - he appears to be some TJ type himself - highly associated with the military, is the CEO of a company, holds motivational workshops, etc. Could be a snake oil salesman or a cult leader for all I know.

    Did some more looking around and he doesn't appear to be any more of an "expert" than about twenty other people hanging out in the field.

    It's good to question things. Something seems inherently wrong to me about saying that all of these introverts have low EQ.

    I'm not even defending myself or my "turf" (as I already mentioned, I view myself as average - high average yet still average - and not above average in terms of EQ)...it's just that this all seemed like a huge steaming load of bullcrap to me, and people were just eating it up with a spoon because somebody quoted a so-called "expert" who did a study. o_O
    I think I read Thompson is an INTJ, and I agree 100% that one should ALWAYS look at the details of the study, (I can't find any details on his study, like how many people.. what the questions were based on, etc.) The fact that this study reveals such a huge E emphasis causes me to suspect that the questions involved were more action based, results in the external environment. So once has to ask what "emotional intelligence" really means. Does this definition truly capture how we might individually understand it? I doubt.

    Personally, my INFP friends have been able to show me a much deeper understanding of feelings and motivations on all angles. INFJ's tend to show me the root cause of emotions, and how they may play out in the future. ENFP's and ENFJ's tend to help me focus on the greater good by embracing optimism and discarding negativity, and non feelers have been able to help me understand how emotions can affect the tangible world, end results, & "fair" expectatations in various ways.

    I think the entire concept of EQ is flawed, just like IQ measures are flawed. Its such an extremely limited net, measuring very specific things.. that it couldn't possibley measure the truth of ones being.. emotionally or intellectually.

    Just my opinon though.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  3. #83
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I do feel like the definition of EI is excluding a few essential elements. Perhaps they are considered less important because they don't directly assist in the management of emotions, if not interfere with it. However, just because some aspects of what I would deem 'EI' aren't goal driven, doesn't mean that they lack in any value.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    The fact that this study reveals such a huge E emphasis causes me to suspect that the questions involved were more action based, results in the external environment. So once has to ask what "emotional intelligence" really means.


    Landy (2005)[34] claimed that the few incremental validity studies conducted on EI have shown that it adds little or nothing to the explanation or prediction of some common outcomes (most notably academic and work success). Landy suggested that the reason why some studies have found a small increase in predictive validity is a methodological fallacy, namely, that alternative explanations have not been completely considered:
    "EI is compared and contrasted with a measure of abstract intelligence but not with a personality measure, or with a personality measure but not with a measure of academic intelligence." Landy (2005)
    Similarly, other researchers have raised concerns about the extent to which self-report EI measures correlate with established personality dimensions. Generally, self-report EI measures and personality measures have been said to converge because they both purport to measure personality traits.[19] Specifically, there appear to be two dimensions of the Big Five that stand out as most related to self-report EI – neuroticism and extroversion. In particular, neuroticism has been said to relate to negative emotionality and anxiety. Intuitively, individuals scoring high on neuroticism are likely to score low on self-report EI measures.
    Criticisms of measurement issues
    Ability EI measures measure conformity, not ability
    Ability EI measures measure knowledge (not actual ability)
    Ability EI measures measure personality and general intelligence
    Self-report measures are susceptible to faking
    personal opinion of EI and type? generally, without extraordinarily deep analysis, just patterns from my life --

    ETJs are good at handling their emotions and others' emotions.
    ITJs are good at accepting and anaylzing, the former especially if they have a mature tertiary.
    ETPs are good at "working" people. getting others' emotions to work well for them (which can be used to benefit that other, or not).
    ITPs are good at seeing past emotion, and not letting it impact their decision making. and at guiding others past/through it.
    EFJs are good at managing others' states. they can be good "lifters", in a more goal-directed manner. they utilize cause and effect.
    IFJs are good at sympathizing, understanding, and guiding. like huxley said, good at seeing emotional cause and effect in greatest depth.
    IFPs are good at understanding emotions - their nuances, subtleties, etc. they're often good at channeling them into creativity.
    EFPs are good at changing others' emotional states. we're good at empowering and "lifting".

    they're all sorts of emotional intelligence... besides that i believe a lot of it is very self-determined... i live with two INTPs, one is much more emotionally aware than the other... but he's also more dramatic and less self-controlled... so take it as you will... i just don't think a linear scale is useful here.

  4. #84

  5. #85
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    my vote still goes to NFs

  6. #86
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    ENTPs are the most emotionally mature.

  7. #87
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Emotional quotient has several definitions. I have always seen it as the ability to control ones emotions as well as other individuals and groups. Some thing I'm not that great at. If it was about understanding...then it would be a completely different story. I can't control my own emotions, let alone other people's. I don't particular concern myself with other people's expression, I'm too busy understanding the motive behind it. It's basically trying to reach the source, not smother the symptom.

    Personally it needs to have a precise definition though for it to be an accurate measure.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    henry thompson's study
    the EQ test used

    Total EI
    top 5: ENTJ, ESTJ, ENFJ, ESFP, ENFP
    bottom 5: ISTP, INFJ, ISTJ, ISFJ, INFP

    Self-Awareness
    top 5: ENFJ, ENFP, ESFP, ESTJ, ESFJ
    bottom 5: INFJ, INTP, ISTP, ISFJ, ISTJ

    the extravert/introvert divide is surprising
    Curiouser and curiouser.

  9. #89
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    Ah! I had to find the definition of EI.

    Now I understand the study's results.

    Emotional Intelligence

    Various authors (Leuner, 1966; Payne, 1986; Salovey & Mayer, 1990; Goleman, 1995; Bar-On, 2002) have used the term Emotional Intelligence to describe a non-cognitive Type of intelligence. My view is that EI is a dynamical system, and on a macro-level, can be described as a person’s innate ability to perceive and manage his/her own emotions in a manner that results in successful interactions with the environment, and if others are present, to also perceive and manage their emotions in a manner that results in successful interpersonal interactions.


    Note that this definition does not require interaction with another person. EI involves managing/ controlling the Awareness and Appraising of emotions and the resulting action patterns in a manner that produces successful outcomes whether in the presence or absence of others.

    When others are present and interpersonal interactions occur, the EI process of managing outcomes becomes several orders of magnitude more complex. Now I have to manage the perceiving and appraising not only of my own dynamic emotions, but the dynamic emotions of other people involved in the interaction. All the components in the EI system are also interacting in a recursive manner, resulting in a very complex self-organizing process.

    Managing the perception of my emotions and the emotions of others, if present (Awareness), provides the foundation for being able to manage the appraisal and action patterns. EI begins by managing/controlling emotions, then awareness of emotions. EI manages a recursive cognitive and emotional appraisal and the blending of emotions, motivational complexes and actions patterns (Figure 4). Intelligent responses to situations require appropriate management of the emotional system in a manner that produces the highest probability of successful interactions with the environment and others, if present.

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