User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 57

  1. #1
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default Cultural Differences and TYPE

    With Dana's permission, I'm posting a PM conversation we had:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix
    Quote Originally Posted by Dana
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix
    Quote Originally Posted by Dana
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix
    Quote Originally Posted by Dana
    I am certain.


    I've been looking for a way to use that!
    When do you realize The Truth About Yourself?
    Well, in my blog I was doing a lot of questioning of my type..

    I knew I was an NP, and it never occurred to me that I was an extravert, so I felt like I had to choose between INTP and INFP. I kept flip flopping, but I just didn't feel like an INFP, what with their timid, introspective selves.. When I discovered my enneagram type (3) from doing actual book-reading and investigation rather than tests, it correlated the 3 with the ENTP. So I read about the ENTP, and the description jived much better with me (dom Ne), but it still didn't fit.. finally, I decided to read about the ENFP, just to give it a try.. and sure enough, it was the perfect fit. I can say with full confidence that I use those functions in that order (Ne Fi Te Si) and I'm glad I finally feel like I can identify with a type. I said in my blog, reading about the ENFP was like reading my biography.

    Anyway.. what type do you think you are? Are you happily perched upon the fence of the information-gathering preference?
    The jig is up! Dana, you are so well-liked. I think your deleting of posts was the most endearing thing you could've done.

    What type am I? I feel fairly confident that I'm an ENFJ or at least EnFJ. I occasionally experience doubt of my type because I'm more grounded in reality than most people around here, I'm not flighty or head in the clouds, and I have good social skills. Yeah, I know that totally sounds like a sensate description.

    What I think makes me different from other intuitives on the forum is cultural differences. As much as people shy away from race around here, I think being a black intuitive just makes me different from a white intuitive because culturally it's ingrained in me to have my "ear to the ground" and be more realistic than white intuitives. I'm a very solid person and have never conceptualized myself as airy. When I look at the world, it's not from an Si POV, it's very much Ni. I've been trying to figure out how to distinguish Si from Ni and figure out which one I use. I just notice that I don't view things the same way as the ESFJs around me. I don't know how strongly Ni I am and I hope I'm not mentally masturbating myself into thinking I'm intuitive. When I read the ESFJ description, I identify with large portions of it. When I read the ENFJ description, I identify with large portions of it. But when I break myself down functionally, I'm Fe Ni Se Ti. Which is why I could wipe my ass with type descriptions. ENFJs sound like gods. ESFJs sound like perfect nurturing mothers. I identify with neither.

    I don't know Dana, this MBTI stuff is such bullshit. I've had to untrain myself about so much of it and not believe the hype.
    Yes.. I definitely don't consider myself extremely introspective and analytical (or head-in-the-clouds), which is pretty much what is valued around here, but I don't care. I don't think being an intellectual is better than being laid back, real, and entertaining, so I'm trying to be true to what I appreciate in others, and I've stopped beating myself up about not being very Ti or Ni.. As for the cultural differences--I really enjoy being realistic, whereas a lot of people are so busy trying to be "understanding" that they don't even acknowledge cultural differences! They don't even want to talk about them! What an interesting thread that would make (black/white culture.. an objective side by side analysis). We kind of tip-toe around heavy topics here because MBTIc has a bit of a thinner skin than INTPc or my other favorite forum. MBTI is dangerous, because it allows for the dismissal of other types, and it creates a sort of ingroup/outgroup, elitist society. I think you should definitely voice your opinion on how a black intuitive would be different from a white intuitive. It would make a very insightful thread. And yeh, I'm not flighty or head in teh clouds.. some people wear their introversion/aversion to socialising/lack of social skills as a badge.. look how INxx I am! No one "gets" me! I'm unique and elusive! Rgh. I very much am proud of my social skills.. it took WORK to aquire them, and genuine interest in others, and attuning myself to their emotions and moods.. One of the reasons I'm proud to be an extravert. It's great to be people-oriented.

    Thanks for the compliment.. It means a lot on this sunny Saturday afternoon.
    I think you're right...would you mind if I posted this PM conversation to get the thread started?
    Go ahead!
    I personally believe that black/Latino intuitives seem more sensate compared to white intuitives due to historical reasons and present realities. I also notice that black introverts aren't as stereotypically introverted as white introverts. I have an article from CAPT that breaks the American population MBTI type down by race and gender. Black people were overwhelmingly ISTJ regardless of sex. But I don't believe that's true type, I think that it's a learned cultural type. I'm not entirely sure of the mechanics of it, but it doesn't seem reflective of what I encounter on daily basis.

    What do people think?

  2. #2
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    With Dana's permission, I'm posting a PM conversation we had:



    I personally believe that black/Latino intuitives seem more sensate compared to white intuitives due to historical reasons and present realities. I also notice that black introverts aren't as stereotypically introverted as white introverts. I have an article from CAPT that breaks the American population MBTI type down by race and gender. Black people were overwhelmingly ISTJ regardless of sex. But I don't believe that's true type, I think that it's a learned cultural type. I'm not entirely sure of the mechanics of it, but it doesn't seem reflective of what I encounter on daily basis.

    What do people think?
    I wonder if my Irish and Italian heritage would have anything to do with my extroversion, or my feeling?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #3
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    873 sx/so
    Socionics
    SLE Ti
    Posts
    7,164

    Default

    Are you asking if we think that people are taught to fit in a mold that the culture expects them to?

    I don't know. Maybe I'm projecting my own expierences with this onto your question, but yeah sadly I do believe that a your certain cultures do expect you to act a certain type. I also believe that if you are a certain type you wouldn't be able to fake being a certian type for long no matter who it was for. You are who you are.

    Most black people are ISTJ?

    I'm a black, male, INFJ, I'm almost the complete opposite of what I'm expected to be.

  4. #4
    Procrastinating
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I wonder if my Irish and Italian heritage would have anything to do with my extroversion, or my feeling?
    I'm first generation born in with USA with Irish heritage. They're known for being fairly outspoken and calling "a spade, a spade" and I do think my cultural environment growing up has affected me in that regard.

  5. #5
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    873

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I have an article from CAPT that breaks the American population MBTI type down by race and gender. Black people were overwhelmingly ISTJ regardless of sex.
    I wonder: were those Black people tested by white people, or other Black people? I get a feeling the results would be vastly different depending on the colour of the testers.

    But I don't believe that's true type, I think that it's a learned cultural type.
    Very possible.

    ***

    Oh, and
    ENFJs sound like gods.
    made me laugh. I live with one: wonderful human being, but not a god. He would freak out big time if someone thought of him as a god

  6. #6
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    11,925

    Default

    I don't 100 percent know where you're getting at here, but yes, there is definitely cultural bias with the MBTI just like any other form of psychometrics -- IQ testing for example. Particularly troubling for me is how there is a literal vs. figurative dichotomy in the MBTI. I think too many people emphasize the sociological definition of "literal" instead of the more psychological definition. For example, an American says "You're biting my head off" as a way of saying "overreacting." Now I suspect that a person unfamiliar with American or English-language euphemisms would take that phrase literally due to misunderstandings.

    I think the definition of "literal" vs. "figurative" should be worded in a more psychological way. In interpreting the euphemisms of different cultures, chances are that, yes, I'm going to take it literal. However, from a more internal psychological point of view, I tend to be more figurative about the world as a whole. For example, when I look at something, I prefer to take it figuratively in that I prefer looking at how it will stimulate my mind and imagine all sorts of possibilities based upon what I observe. I prefer doing this to seeing the object for what it is. I focus more on what it means, but in the subjective context...what it means to me and what imaginary possibilities the object could suggest unrelated to the external world. I don't take the world literally. I think when the question is worded "Are you inclined to take someone's words literally or figuratively?", I feel that it's such a narrow definition of literal. And so I think it should be a more universal definition of literal.

  7. #7
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,132

    Default

    I come from a culture traditionally described as "white trash" This culture is quite different from the mainstream white culture.

    I think I complained in my blog once that this is a culture where, if you don't do something with your hands and see what is around you for just that, you are considered lazy and a bit off- my ability to schmooze and convince people of things is even looked askance at because it's not MAKING something- it's considered dishonest work

    To get out of my background culture as an N would probably be nearly impossible
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #8
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I come from a culture traditionally described as "white trash" This culture is quite different from the mainstream white culture.

    I think I complained in my blog once that this is a culture where, if you don't do something with your hands and see what is around you for just that, you are considered lazy and a bit off- my ability to schmooze and convince people of things is even looked askance at because it's not MAKING something- it's considered dishonest work

    To get out of my background culture as an N would probably be nearly impossible
    The bolded is so true! My husband has a brilliant mind and has always been hardworking, doing his best to provide for us while he was in college, and later, seminary and my family had not one ounce of respect for him until he became *drum roll* a truck driver. Unbelievable.


    (sorry if this is off-topic)
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #9
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    11,925

    Default

    Okay, I read the first post again. It seems there was a few things I just misunderstood. Even though I am white, I don't think I've ever been perceived as an introvert in a typical white American social group. In fact, my behavior in front of other people is quite animated and I am able be wild and goofy in contrast of the typical stereotype of a serious INTJ.

    I also wouldn't be perceived as hardworking in the way American culture defines it, and what most people associate with a J. Hell, my physical surroundings are, for the most part, not even organized or in any kind of order and much of my lifestyle is physically untidy, in general. However, cognitively, I am a J much more than a P. I want my lifestyle to be predictable and controlled. I don't like unsuspected surprises. In addition, I can be extremely ambitious when there is something that interests me. But I'm just not interested in "American dream" types of things, so to the American culture, I am not hardworking and would likely be perceived as a slacker.

    Usually, when I take an MBTI, I mentally think of the questions as if they are being asked from a more universal and less ethnocentric perspective.

  10. #10
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    I'm first generation born in with USA with Irish heritage. They're known for being fairly outspoken and calling "a spade, a spade" and I do think my cultural environment growing up has affected me in that regard.
    I don't know... I'm skeptical... I mean, you get national and cultural stereotypes but they seldom hold true in reality. I've been to Ireland, France, Italy, Africa, Asia... and pretty much everywhere it's the same. There are flighty people, there are academics, stuffy dry people and spontaneous social people, the whole range of personalities exists in every single country on earth... I think the only thing that changes is the generally accepted modes of manifesting certain mentalities and traits, the communication methods and standards.

    What I mean is that whilst doing Thing A in one country might have you perceived as one thing, it might have you perceived as an entirely different thing in another country. So people with the same mentalities and personal takes on the world might present it differently, depending on the 'audience' they've been trained to present to.

    I think the reason many people might find the whole theory of MBTI a crock of shit is because it's all presented from a very particular point of view - the home culture of its authors which happens to be sorta middle majority white America. It doesn't necessarily mean that the theory doesn't hold true for other cultures, it just means that new profiles are needed that take these differences into account and offer/allow for different ways of displaying the same qualities.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

Similar Threads

  1. Difference in type between MBTI and Socionics
    By Blackmail! in forum Socionics
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 07-12-2011, 05:25 PM
  2. ancestry, culture and type
    By Sentura in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 111
    Last Post: 05-25-2009, 07:18 PM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-20-2008, 05:45 PM
  4. Counter Culture Icons and Type : Part 1 - Computer Geeks
    By ygolo in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-07-2007, 02:13 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO