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  1. #41
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I could not figure out who said this in the OP.

    When INxx say these things it is because they are looking for a type of understanding and fitting in that they don't find too often out in the world. On boards like this it can be a priceless experience to express these feelings and have someone else actually say they can relate. So much nicer than being told you are "flighty and head in the clouds" or "too quiet" in a negative fashion as often can be the case in offline life.

    Certainly IN can be made to feel different in their lives. I don't think they ---or IS----- are necessarily wearing their *introversion* like a badge, it is what they are. This is such a strange statement: "wearing their introversion like a badge." I don't even understand what would be wrong with a person chosing to do such a thing. Should they instead be ashamed of being introverted? Just because you feel you "worked" to become more socially adept has nothing to do with the difficulties a introvert will have with social interactions and balance, because you gain energy as extrovert from being social, you won't have the same outlook on it.

    If one works in a certain field or comes from a family populated with many IN, you may not understand how rare it can be for some to run into other IN in their lives and how different life can make them feel, for better or worse different. So should the IN try and deny this feeling of difference?
    I am ashamed to admit that that part of the conversation was a good example of when I project my negative feelings toward myself onto others. Don't read too much into it.. =\

  2. #42
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    Good points and I agree but not wholly. Perhaps its particularly American expectations. For example Bill O'Reilly and Denise Miller had a discussion about this on O'Reilly's show. Well, he's made frequent references to his Irish mouth. Anyway, its comes up many times that people take "offense?" to the way the Irish state things.... finding them rather blunt and/or tactless. I, honestly, don't know if my propencity for that particular style is Irish or INTP actually... I'm still learning about it.
    I don't buy it. Bill O-Rielly is just another overrated extraverted thinking type. It probably arose because during the 19th century working class people had no time for upper-class affectations. Of course, to me, '___'ish blood and similar statements have little or no meaning. It's amazing how much our culture would like to chalk these insignificant things into innate differences in character.
    By the way, blunt can mean little or nothing when it becomes a caricature. Extraverted thinking (the standard of U.S culture) may be 'blunt' in some sense. not really for other stuff. Introverted intution types are extremely direct about what they see. Feeling types can be extremely blunt in value judgement.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    I am ashamed to admit that that part of the conversation was a good example of when I project my negative feelings toward myself onto others. Don't read too much into it.. =\
    Yeah, same here, it was an emotional reaction on my part, just fed up with extroverts in my family life who made similar comments. Not much more to it than that.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I understand what you mean and largely agree, but I think that this sentiment assumes a "disconnect" between the external world and the contents of the internal "dreaming" which doesn't exist. Yes, an INFP in any situation will be a dreamer by nature, but the contents of those flights of fancy will be informed and shaped by the external reality of that person's life.

    Also, the degree to which an introvert has been "socialized" (to borrow a term I saw elsewhere on this board and quite liked) has a dramatic effect on his personality and thought processes. Introverts tend to like to believe that the external world has no influence on our "true selves", but that's simply untrue.
    It really all depends on how well the INFP develops Ne. If INFP gets into Fi-Si loop, they will become insularly and perhaps somewhat bitter towards the world and people in it, no matter how many hours they work at practical work, their inner thoughts will be consumed with introversion and their perceptions won't have the extra benefit of a well working Ne to counteract misperceptions. Hard physical work and financial hardship alone won't necessarily socialize an INFP anymore than a cushy life with extended higher education might.

  5. #45
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    It really all depends on how well the INFP develops Ne. If INFP gets into Fi-Si loop, they will become insularly and perhaps somewhat bitter towards the world and people in it, no matter how many hours they work at practical work, their inner thoughts will be consumed with introversion and their perceptions won't have the extra benefit of a well working Ne to counteract misperceptions. Hard physical work and financial hardship alone won't necessarily socialize an INFP anymore than a cushy life with extended higher education might.
    An INFP in cushy conditions can indulge the "Fi-Si loop". A bitter, disenchanted, antisocial INFP (or any other member of any other type, for that matter) will find it extremely difficult to hold down a job. Remember, we're discussing a hypothetical lower-monetary-class person with no training or job skills. Being agreeable is a necessity if you intend to hold down a menial job for the sake of keeping a roof over your head and some food in your stomach.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  6. #46
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    I held jobs just fine in the Fi-Si loop!

    I was nice and polite and quiet and did my work. I was a hard and polite worker. If I needed to work with customers, I learned an automatic way of dealing with them and let that take over and the whole time my Fi-Si loop was playing in my head. I wasn't truly socialized, just enough to be employable and to do basic daily interactions. I still kept much of my true self locked away.

  7. #47
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    My premise is such:

    Ivory-tower, disconnected introversion is the result of insulation. Having no choice but to head out into the world on a daily basis and interact, on some level, with other human beings by its nature precludes this sort of insulation.

    Dissent or concur as you will.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  8. #48
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I personally believe that black/Latino intuitives seem more sensate compared to white intuitives due to historical reasons and present realities. I also notice that black introverts aren't as stereotypically introverted as white introverts. I have an article from CAPT that breaks the American population MBTI type down by race and gender. Black people were overwhelmingly ISTJ regardless of sex. But I don't believe that's true type, I think that it's a learned cultural type. I'm not entirely sure of the mechanics of it, but it doesn't seem reflective of what I encounter on daily basis.

    What do people think?
    Cultures reward and therefore encourage specific behavior. The two black men I know are respectively an ISTJ and an INFP. Both were brought up in an American urban setting, both do act true to type, and if compelled to switch to "street talk" affect behavior of an xSTP.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    My premise is such:

    Ivory-tower, disconnected introversion is the result of insulation. Having no choice but to head out into the world on a daily basis and interact, on some level, with other human beings by its nature precludes this sort of insulation.

    Dissent or concur as you will.
    By your theory there would be no neurotic working class people and experience proves this just isn't so.

    People can create surface personas to deal with daily life and work. Daily life and work can only touch the inner person as much as they allow it to.

  10. #50
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    By your theory there would be no neurotic working class people and experience proves this just isn't so.
    I made no assertions in regard to the relationship between socialization and neuroticism.

    Please don't put words into my (figurative) mouth.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

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