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  1. #21
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    why read some speculation like this from a time when the test wasnt even most likely tested yet, when you can read actual studies about its validity and reliability?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  2. #22
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    This
    the official one is crap and because its so crap the field of psychology wont take MBTI seriously, there are alot better tests out there..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #23
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    why read some speculation like this from a time when the test wasnt even most likely tested yet, when you can read actual studies about its validity and reliability?

    The bias has been a known issue for years, both outside this forum and inside this forum. It's old news.

  4. #24
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    The bias has been a known issue for years, both outside this forum and inside this forum. It's old news.
    If Step II is the newer "Form Q", and Step I is "Form M", then is the Step II more accurate in terms of the concerns you linked to?

  5. #25
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    The bias has been a known issue for years, both outside this forum and inside this forum. It's old news.
    lol the link you posted is about speculation of the test before it had been even released. MBTI Form M has been tested quite alot since and it has had really good reliability and validity. i just wrote a shit load of stuff about validity and reliability of MBTI Form M to one school project and had to read studies of its validity and reliability quite alot for that..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #26
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    If Step II is the newer "Form Q", and Step I is "Form M", then is the Step II more accurate in terms of the concerns you linked to?
    Regardless of form, I think the MBTI will continue to be an instrument with a forced-choice method. The result can easily become nothing more than an artifact of the testing method rather than an accurate representation of the person's true preferences. Therein lies one of its main problems, and always has been - bipolarity, is it real? Many who have ran experiments over the decades, say no. It doesn't necessarily hold up. The Si bias was just one more strike against the instrument.

    Linda V. Berens wrote about the SP issue, in her article comparing extraverted sensing with intuiting.

    Check it out:
    How to tell iNtuiting from extraverted Sensing

    http://www.interstrength.com/content...verted_sensing

    We discussed some of the MBTI issues in this older thread:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...rs-briggs.html

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    the official one is crap and because its so crap the field of psychology wont take MBTI seriously, there are alot better tests out there..
    The field of psychology only takes Big Five seriously, which IMO is overly simplistic and based on observable behaviors rather than motives. There are critical arguments against the Big Five, including by licensed practitioners. They refer to it sometimes as "the stranger test"...they are behaviors observable to a casual stranger, even to a bright child.

    And if you feel this way, then why were you defending Keirsey's temperaments the other day in a thread? Keirsey is even more simplistic than MBTI.

    Jungian theory > MBTI > Keirsey

  8. #28
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Regardless of form, I think the MBTI will continue to be an instrument with a forced-choice method. The result can easily become nothing more than an artifact of the testing method rather than an accurate representation of the person's true preferences. Therein lies one of its main problems, and always has been - bipolarity, is it real? Many who have ran experiments over the decades, say no. It doesn't necessarily hold up.
    you would prefer likert scales or open questions? well, likert scales wouldnt make much of a difference because ipsative scales can be made to work as well as likert by actually knowing what you are doing when building the test. open questions MBTI test would be pretty neat, but your typing would be totally up to the typer(you would need some professional to type you), some half open(dunno if thats the actual term in english) question MBTI test would be neat too, but would also require some professional to type you, but how could you know that this professional is good at typing?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  9. #29
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Jungian theory > MBTI > Keirsey
    yea i think MBTI has simplified jungs psychological types way too much, but it has also added some really valuable sides to it. imo its best to look at these three as different sides of a same thing. jung owns, but it has its shortcomings also
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    yea i think MBTI has simplified jungs psychological types way too much, but it has also added some really valuable sides to it. imo its best to look at these three as different sides of a same thing. jung owns, but it has its shortcomings also
    Okay, I concede that all three serve a useful purpose. "Please Understand Me" could at least stop people from believing that those who are different from themselves are "stupid" or "crazy" or whatever. It at least does that, and I do think there is truth in the core Promethean NTs wanting power (or to be right, or appeal to authority) and Appollonian NFs want to find themselves (and are more likely to go into therapy than other types, apparently) etc.

    However, it annoys me because it leads to harmful stereotypes that don't really do justice to how personalities can manifest in ISFJs or ENTPs.

    MBTI does more at least, IMO, to stop people from thinking in stereotypes so much, but it still doesn't touch on the depth and complexity of motive in Jungian theory.

    Then again, Jungian theory is more subtle to grasp, it can get confusing to some, and you may have to really be honest with yourself and/or observe others over a period of time instead of being able to instantly slap a label on them according to behaviors.

    So maybe it's good to start with Keirsey and MBTI and move up to Jungian theory. It's just that sometimes people get stuck in Keirsey and go around saying stupid shit like "all ISFJs are frigid prudes."

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