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  1. #11
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by candylandjoe View Post
    In a Youtube interview with Letterman, Ray describes her husband and herself as a pair of hot-blooded, easily angered Italians, which doesn't support estp
    Why in the world not? For her (I don't know what his type is), that would perfectly fit the "In Charge" Interaction Style, which is the "Choleric". Revelations like that are precisely what tipped my wife off that she had some Choleric in there. (I myself had been arguing for the "pure Sanguine" ESFP).

    I recently heard her say she liked to play with Erector sets as a child. Now, you have to be careful taking just one thing like that as proof of type. But in light of all the other stuff, it is good evidence of an "impersonal" focus. Especially for a girl, who you would think would be pushed towards more "personal" (Feeling) type activities even if a T, since F is the stereotypical role for females.
    though it's understandably difficult to tell, as she's also resourceful, action-oriented, and to-the-point. Rather, I think it's more likely she's an e1 esfj, sx/sp e12, one whose traditional, kitchenwife leanings are overshadowed by her boisterous tenancies at first glance.
    She does not seem like either a J; nor a "traditional housewife" AT ALL. Furthest thing. I think you're just looking at her being a cook, and a host.
    ESTP has tertiary Fe, and this might be greatly "inflated", especially for a female, again, because of the stereotypical role. It is strong enough to make her look like a very people-focused hostess, but it really does not seem to be a preferred function; especially not dominant! I think she's an obvious dom. Se.

    The cooking can actually go well with Ti. Think Alton Brown. Only for her, it's just not dominant.

    Also, e1? Couldn't be. e12? what's that; you mean 1w2? I could see 2, but where is this 1 coming from? She would seem more like a 3 or something. Perhaps 3w2?

    Also, I want to confirm that that Paula lady is estp, so/sx e78, so let's compare. Start with their kitchens.
    Could be. Don't watch her nearly as much; never thought much of her type.

    Even after all the friendly discussion, I still consider Wonder an sx/so e32 enfp. Strong, compulsive, outward energy supported by being a 3, with a friendly, poetic flair tailored to please anyone of his choosing. Couldn't we go back and forth all night about attributing T or F to however his songs come across to us?
    Someone else has suggested ENFP in that thread, but that doesn't seem like him at all! He's directive, and not a Get Things Going type at all, but rather a Chart the Course.

    Again, my argument on him as that trauma to the right brain shifted him to the left brain. (So if he had started out ENFP, he would probably look ESTJ now!) Before that, he seemed much more P, and albums like Talking Book, which I grew up on, have a strong ST vibe.
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  2. #12
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Why in the world not? For her (I don't know what his type is), that would perfectly fit the "In Charge" Interaction Style, which is the "Choleric". Revelations like that are precisely what tipped my wife off that she had some Choleric in there. (I myself had been arguing for the "pure Sanguine" ESFP).
    Now's probably a good time to catch up on your terminology so I know how to respond to this. Is there a link? I know I have it saved somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I recently heard her say she liked to play with Erector sets as a child. Now, you have to be careful taking just one thing like that as proof of type. But in light of all the other stuff, it is good evidence of an "impersonal" focus. Especially for a girl, who you would think would be pushed towards more "personal" (Feeling) type activities even if a T, since F is the stereotypical role for females.
    Have you discussed her type with anyone else who is certain of their type to determine reactions? The reason I consider her esfj is because I find her tolerable (-isfj) on television, but would find her completely annoying if anywhere near me, due not only to sheer volume but volume of the subject matter she focuses on: friends, family, etc., while laughing at her audience so openly they can see the zebra stripes reverberating on her tonsils. Whereas estps give me a sort of unconscious, harmonizing satisfaction, as esfps should, in theory, give you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    She does not seem like either a J; nor a "traditional housewife" AT ALL. Furthest thing. I think you're just looking at her being a cook, and a host.
    ESTP has tertiary Fe, and this might be greatly "inflated", especially for a female, again, because of the stereotypical role. It is strong enough to make her look like a very people-focused hostess, but it really does not seem to be a preferred function; especially not dominant! I think she's an obvious dom. Se.
    Let's assume she's an obvious dom. Se, but whenever you get a minute, pluck a few hairbrained infps off the street and ask them what they think about Ray. Have your camera phone handy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Think Alton Brown.
    Also enneagram 1 intp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Also, e1? Couldn't be. e12? what's that; you mean 1w2? I could see 2, but where is this 1 coming from? She would seem more like a 3 or something. Perhaps 3w2?
    As noted above, I'd initially overattributed on-and-off, hot-and-cold, reactive anger (presumably what she describes in the video) with enneagram 1, but she and Marm could, indeed, be fun watching bounce off each other.

    I'll lay off the Wondertalk.

    thinking of you

  3. #13
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by candylandjoe View Post
    Now's probably a good time to catch up on your terminology so I know how to respond to this. Is there a link? I know I have it saved somewhere.
    http://www.erictb.info/temperament2ss.html The bottom section, about the MBTI-FIRO correlation. This briefly discusses the Interaction Styles and Galen temperaments.
    Have you discussed her type with anyone else who is certain of their type to determine reactions? The reason I consider her esfj is because I find her tolerable (-isfj) on television, but would find her completely annoying if anywhere near me, due not only to sheer volume but volume of the subject matter she focuses on: friends, family, etc., while laughing at her audience so openly they can see the zebra stripes reverberating on her tonsils. Whereas estps give me a sort of unconscious, harmonizing satisfaction, as esfps should, in theory, give you.
    You can't always go by stuff like that. Especially with someone you're seeing on TV. Again, that can be a stage persona.
    We know someone who says they worked around her, and they testified she was more of an "in Charge" type (they did't use type or Interaction Style, but the behaviors fit).
    Let's assume she's an obvious dom. Se, but whenever you get a minute, pluck a few hairbrained infps off the street and ask them what they think about Ray. Have your camera phone handy.
    :confused:I don't understand this.
    Also enneagram 1 intp?
    I'm not sure about enneagram, but yes, INTP.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  4. #14
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I also meant to add to the OP, that the impersonal focus of Thinking can also be described as "technical". Someone with a very "technical" focus is likely a T.
    (Keirsey should have used "Technical" more-so than "Tough-minded" as his new name for what "T" stands for).

    Some more examples:

    Like choosing gadgets. I choose something I "like", which sounds like "Fi", the way it is described. But it's really because of some way it makes things easier. Like when recordable CD's, then DVD's, then finally, recordable DVD's came out, I followed it very enthusiastically, because it allowed me to eliminate annoying casette tapes. (I had waited so long for it, only for solid state technology to come on its heels).

    LED's have several advantages. The monochromatic colors, ability to make any shade of white, the ability to change colors, less wattage, less heat, last longer.

    Electric cars eliminate not only the smoke, but also the flammable combustion fuel.

    A more "personal" perspective would focus on the "green" effect for the sake of "humanity". For me, that is just a fringe benefit, and the focus is on technical convenience. (Hence, Berens including "convenience" as one of the standards used by Ti).

    Clothes, it's color and texture more than a directly "personal" factor of "fitting in". Still, some might try to define that as Fi, but the difference from a differentiated Fi standpoint is that the latter's "personal" focus will extend beying the person to a more universal scope (such as "humanity" in general. This, in contrast to crude distinctions between Fi and Fe with only Fe "considering others", while Fi is more self-involved).
    So when an Fi likes a color, it might be because it represents something to him that is "personal", such as warmth, peace, etc. Contrast with me, where is just "looks cool" or something like that, or it is somehow "unique". This is actually an impersonal focus. But the way Fi was described in terms of "likes", it made it impossibleto tell the difference.

    Our brains can interpret anything pleasing to the senses as "like". (Just like Luna's cupcakes in her thread! Pretty colors, and looks like they taste good!)
    That is not what is meant by the "personal" factor of "valuing" something. It has to involve the universal aspect of "personhood" (from the viewpoint of the individual) for Fi, and an immediate external environment for Fe. (Hence, Bruzon's "wide/local area matrix, respectively).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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