User Tag List

12311 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 115

  1. #1
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Lightbulb Fi vs. Ti (thanks to Virginia Woolf)

    Sometimes I see people struggling with the difference between these two functions (usually the infamous INxPs). Both are subjective rational functions, but their orientation is different. Fi seeks to come to a subjective conclusion (subjective-subjective) but Ti seeks to come to an objective conclusion (subjective-objective).

    I was reading about Virgina Woolf's To the Lighthouse (which, TBH, kinda bored me even with the fantastic writing), and the artist in the story at the conclusion betrays a Fi mindset (I suspect Woolf herself to be INFP as well). To quote wikipedia: "...she realizes that the execution of her vision is more important to her than the idea of leaving some sort of legacy in her work."

    In short, Fi seeks to come to a conclusion/understanding that the person agrees with personally. It is congruent with their ideals and sense of themselves. The "right" answer. Ti, on the other hand, seeks to come to a conclusion/understanding that is accurate. It is also "right", but in a different sense. The end result may be something the Ti-user finds disagreeable, but it is what it is. The conclusion has to stand separate from the person, much like the "legacy" in the quote above. Ideals and personal wishes are irrelevant.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,859

    Default

    Define 'accurate'. thx

  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    In short, Fi seeks to come to a conclusion/understanding that the person agrees with personally. It is congruent with their ideals and sense of themselves. The "right" answer. Ti, on the other hand, seeks to come to a conclusion/understanding that is accurate. It is also "right", but in a different sense. The end result may be something the Ti-user finds disagreeable, but it is what it is. The conclusion has to stand separate from the person, much like the "legacy" in the quote above. Ideals and personal wishes are irrelevant. Thoughts?
    Well, flip it the WHOLE way.

    You're saying Fi comes to an understand that they agree with personally, even if they don't like that it might seem inconsistent with the accumulated external/world detail. Right? And then Ti would be the opposite? They might dislike the answer, but have to go with what seems consistent with the actual data?

    It's like whatever is "grounding" the beliefs are located in different spheres.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #4
    ThatGirl
    Guest

    Default

    I don't understand how the two could be confused at all.

  5. #5
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,106

    Default

    Yeah, I can see that. For Fi, the right answer has to be in accordance with the values that matter. For Ti, it's looking at what is in accordance with the logic that matters.

    Both can be somewhat subjective, I think (depends on how you spin logic?), but I think that Ti seems more concerned that it is not just "right" for them, but that it is right from a measurable and provable standpoint. (Perhaps their measure or their starting points can be a little subjective though?) Accuracy of thought is very important to Ti users, which is why they often tend to care more about whether what the other person is saying is true over whether or not they like that truth. I also think it is why Ti users tend to use a lot of qualifiers in the the statements they make. My Ti perceptions may be different though than a dom or aux Ti user's.

    On the other hand, I think Fi would also argue that the conclusions they come to are also The Truth. However I think they would be more okay with knowing that truth, without worrying about how to prove it to someone else in a quantifiable manner. It is about finding truth in matters of feeling and that is difficult to conclusively prove to anybody but oneself, even if the Fi user feels that the principle is more universal than that. I have a harder time talking about it from this perspective, simply because I'm not in their heads, so if I'm grossly mistaken, my apologies.

    I'm kind of thinking aloud as I write, but that's how it seems to me on first glance.

  6. #6
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,859

    Default

    I have not seen many logical conclusions that don't contain subjective assumptions, so I can see why people can't easily tell the difference.

  7. #7
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    I "think" that I relate to what MacGuffin is saying about Ti. Where his description resonates is that let's say I have a vision of what I'd like to accomplish (starting a business, etc.). I'll set out to do it often with this sort of "dreamy vision" of all the great things it could be. But, when it actually comes down to it, I know that ultimately I have to do it "right", rather than the way I envisioned it. Ideally, the way I envisioned it would match up perfectly with the reality of it (the actual implementation of it), but that's not always the case. I'm trying to think of an example, but it's not really coming to me. OK, here's one. I started a job and one of the reasons I took it (one of the MAJOR factors) was because I was given a certain level of freedom to create my own hours. That's huge to me. It frees me up to come and go as I need to and to work on other things when I need to, etc. So, subjectively, this looked like a good position for me to take. But, after taking the job, the reality of the situation was this: objectively, setting my own hours didn't really work that well. Even though I was given freedom to come and go, I found that I could not do the job nearly as good this way. People were constantly needing my help and I wouldn't be available - they'd have to check back with me the next day - it just wasn't efficient and it wasn't allowing me to good at my job.

    So, ideally, I would *love* to be able to come and go as I please and work on things *when I want to work on them* - whether that be Saturday night at 11pm or Tuesday morning at 4:30am. But, objectively, I know this isn't the best way to be successful in the position. So, even though I took the job, in large part, because of the freedom it would provide and even though I'd love to continue to *take that freedom*, objectively, I know that it's not the best way, it's not the *right way* - at least not for this specific job. It just doesn't work out as well that way. People get frustrated, it alienates people (they always have to wait until tomorrow when they see me again, etc.).

    So, I had to give up my subjective ideal in order to do it *the right way* - the way that works best for everyone involved.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #8
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    imo:

    Te uses an external, consistent ruler. its units are based upon elements outside the self, and the distances between units don't change.

    Ti uses an internal, consistent ruler. the units are based upon measurements decided upon within the self, but the distances between units do not change.

    Fe uses an inconsistent ruler agreed upon externally - the distances between units can change based on people, and the units are based on external elements.

    Fi uses an internal, inconsistent ruler - it also changes to meet people, but the units are adjusted internally.

    they all have their advantages and disadvantages. Te is completely objective; Ti is the master of formulation of systems. Fe is good at handling people externally; Fi can adapt to meet people internally.

  9. #9
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I "think" that I relate to what MacGuffin is saying about Ti.
    I feel you, brah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, flip it the WHOLE way.

    You're saying Fi comes to an understand that they agree with personally, even if they don't like that it might seem inconsistent with the accumulated external/world detail. Right? And then Ti would be the opposite? They might dislike the answer, but have to go with what seems consistent with the actual data?

    It's like whatever is "grounding" the beliefs are located in different spheres.
    Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.

    Both start from a subjective (internal view according to Jung) perspective. Fi tries to make the conclusion congruent with internal values, Ti tries to make it congruent with external values.

    "I have made something about myself" vs. "I have made something regardless of myself".

  10. #10
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    imo:
    Te uses a consistent ruler agreed upon externally. the distances between units don't change.
    Fe uses an inconsistent ruler agreed upon externally - the distances between units can change based on people.
    Fi uses an internal, inconsistent ruler.
    Ti uses an internal, consistent ruler.
    That's pretty good too.

Similar Threads

  1. Fi vs Fe compared to Ti vs Te: Additional personal impressions
    By YUI in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-07-2015, 02:39 PM
  2. Fi vs. Ti and active listening skills
    By The Great One in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-10-2013, 03:13 PM
  3. Difference in Fi vs Ti in the conclusion of a god
    By Azure Flame in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 111
    Last Post: 06-15-2013, 08:08 PM
  4. Romney vs. Obama; Te(Fi) vs. Ti(Fe)
    By Istbkleta in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-21-2012, 05:12 PM
  5. Fi vs. Ti
    By G-Virus in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-09-2008, 08:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO