User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 115

  1. #31
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I was reading about Virgina Woolf's To the Lighthouse (which, TBH, kinda bored me even with the fantastic writing), and the artist in the story at the conclusion betrays a Fi mindset (I suspect Woolf herself to be INFP as well). To quote wikipedia: "...she realizes that the execution of her vision is more important to her than the idea of leaving some sort of legacy in her work."
    What did you take away from this book? Did it speak to you at all?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #32
    Senior Member Cybin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    105

    Default

    I disagree that Fi is any more or less prone to focus on others than any other function.

    Fi values are based on what an Fi person thinks the world would be better as, not what benefits them as an individual. The Fi perspective does refer often to their own feelings, which does lead a very easy trap of assuming people all feel like the Fi user. This can be remedied with some wisdom and maturity. A more mature Fi user will use their feelings as a guiding point, not an end point, for understanding how other people work.

    Everyone has the ability to be selfish, and anyone can make the mistake of thinking that other people think like them.

    Fi doesn't "come from nowhere" but it is difficult to express. TeFi is exactly the same in my experience. Things 'should' be this way and they 'should' do this, the focus tends to be more on impersonal systems than the individual compared to FiTe. STJ duties are born from Fi.

    From my perspective, my values are based on my understanding of how I am affected by external forces, and how I understand others to be affected. I don't like to see other people hurt, it "feels bad." My values are worked around reducing pain and growing healthy individual minds. They aren't perfect, by any means. But, I certainly don't feel as if I'm innately more selfish than any other person and I don't base my decisions on glitter and shiny things without thought.

    My own internal workings are very very loud. I cannot ignore how I feel very easily. This is why I prioritize how people are affected, because it is the loudest part of my world view. I know when I was younger I was more self centered, absolutely. As I experience more of the world this is becoming less true. I would wager that most people are the same way in this regard.

  3. #33
    ThatGirl
    Guest

    Default

    I am an Fi user right? Yet my functions test will say that I use more Ti than Te.

    In my experience Fi deals with circumstances and standards I already have set guidelines for. It can be over something stupid, like why would someone make a comment like that unnecessarily? Or it may have to do with larger things. Sometimes stepping in to aid some of my views on justice, what warrants punishment, what I think or feel the lines and boundaries are, etc.

    But, these understandings and morales are already defined, then are applied to a situation to help it adhere to my moral beliefs.

    Ti on the other hand couldn't care less what I personally think or feel about a situation. It takes a step back to objectively calculate the over all weight of each situation or circumstance. Coming up with objective ideas and understandings by working through and sorting a plexus of information into similar categories.

    So Fi, projects into a situation, and Ti takes from it?
    Fi, understands subjectively, Ti seeks to understand objectively.

    How accurate am I on this?

  4. #34
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I am an Fi user right? Yet my functions test will say that I use more Ti than Te.

    In my experience Fi deals with circumstances and standards I already have set guidelines for. It can be over something stupid, like why would someone make a comment like that unnecessarily? Or it may have to do with larger things. Sometimes stepping in to aid some of my views on justice, what warrants punishment, what I think or feel the lines and boundaries are, etc.

    But, these understandings and morales are already defined, then are applied to a situation to help it adhere to my moral beliefs.

    Ti on the other hand couldn't care less what I personally think or feel about a situation. It takes a step back to objectively calculate the over all weight of each situation or circumstance. Coming up with objective ideas and understandings by working through and sorting a plexus of information into similar categories.

    So Fi, projects into a situation, and Ti takes from it?
    Fi, understands subjectively, Ti seeks to understand objectively.

    How accurate am I on this?
    Interesting thoughts, and I think you're right. Fi-users want to personalise everything - they mentally put themselves into the situation and then determine a course of action based on the corresponding imperative that is invoked inside them. Whereas Ti-users, take themselves out of the equation and think in terms of what is required by the situation itself - they feel no personal obligation to act (?), and only wish to determine a course of action that fits with their personal logic.

    So perhaps Fi-users project themselves into a situation in order to solicit a response inside them - to discover what they think/feel so they know how to act. And maybe Fi doms can't manage without personalising things because they don't know how to respond to them without doing so. Ti, on the other hand, is only personally attached to the logic, not the situation it is applied to.

    Does this make sense? :confused:
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  5. #35
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/so
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Interesting thoughts, and I think you're right. Fi-users want to personalise everything - they mentally put themselves into the situation and then determine a course of action based on the corresponding imperative that is invoked inside them. Whereas Ti-users, take themselves out of the equation and think in terms of what is required by the situation itself - they feel no personal obligation to act (?), and only wish to determine a course of action that fits with their personal logic.

    So perhaps Fi-users project themselves into a situation in order to solicit a response inside them - to discover what they think/feel so they know how to act. And maybe Fi doms can't manage without personalising things because they don't know how to respond to them without doing so. Ti, on the other hand, is only personally attached to the logic, not the situation it is applied to.

    Does this make sense? :confused:
    I think for me it feels more like I allow the situation to project inward, where it is then evaluated. I think INTPs doing something similar, where the inward projection of the outward reality becomes their model or framework which they then hone using Ti.

    The models I build as an INFP are often a model of the mental or emotional state of another. Like an INTP's model of reality, they aren't always accurate but sometimes grant a certain kind of insight.

    Of course, as an Fi-dom I can help but feel that emotions always color perception and judgment, and no one can be entirely objective. There's a certain freedom in owning up to one's own irrationality.

  6. #36
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    What's amusing is, this description is very close to one that I wrote once about them. Fi is completely subjective, Te is completely objective, and Fe and Ti are somewhere in between.

    This problem with this description is that it makes it sound like Te is probably the "best" way of making decisions, while Fi is the worst. Who would want to use a subjectively defined and inconsistent ruler? That sounds like the worst kind. I think it would be better if we could define them in a way that doesn't make Fi come across so badly. It makes Fi seem completely unaccountable to anything except itself. But surely it has to be held to SOME kind of standard... or else, there would be no way of correcting corruption or error in an Fi user's values.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Still, it looks like Fi would need a LOT more help, and contribute a lot less, doesn't it? I mean, Ti at least contributes precision and analytical skills. Te contributes structure and pragmatism. Fe contributes diplomacy and compassion... what does Fi do? It just has its own values that don't come from anywhere, and judges things by them. It just has feelings about its own ideals. Maybe it gives FPs a lot of internal motivation and self-confidence, but it doesn't benefit anyone else.

    The way it looks to me, is that Ne and Se completely carry an FP through life. The Fi doesn't provide much more than motivation, and has no skills.

    I would like to think there was more to it, but...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    I've isolated this as a Fe judgment based on external values. Many Fi users aren't interested in benefitting anyone else unless they've incorporated this value into their sourced database. Now take the strength and conviction of Fi if a Fi user has embraced this or any other value. Mountains can be moved since there's rigidity and determination in Fi.


    in addition to what z buck pointed out, i think that there's a sort of fascinating twist in which Fi becomes more removed in some ways than the other functions (in other words, an aspect in which they flip Fi>Ti,Fe>Te) - not in the sense of objectivity, but in the sense of independence. the downside to Te, then Fe and Ti, is that they need certain things to operate. Te must have an external arena and is confined to logic. Fe doesn't have the same logic constraint but also must have an external environment (you will note how an ESFJ or ENFJ in private contemplation moves almost entirely to Si or Ni), Ti is tied to logic (things are frustrating and nonsensical if they do not operate by logic), while Fi is constrained neither by logic nor by the existence of an external environment.

    it's why you occasionally have the one little Fi dom kid finally getting really angry and standing up and yelling at the bully when no one else will - it's not logical to do that, and it's not in line with external standards - but in throwing your entire self on the line you stand to gain a more holistic achievement - the only word i can think of is healing.

    also fascinating is what we see occur in types:

    Fe is always paired with Ti, Ti with Fe
    Te is always paried with Fi, Fi with Te

    so:

    Fe/Ti - (subjective, objective) / (objective, subjective)
    Fi/Te - (subjective, subjective) / (objective, objective)

    we all thus have both objective and subjective Judging processes. the difference lies in whether they are grouped together, or paired. why FPs and TJs can seem alternatingly warm and cool while TPs and FJs can seem simultaneously warm and cool.

  7. #37
    ThatGirl
    Guest

    Default

    The reason I said that Fi projects out, is this:

    Take a situation where someone walks in and recognizes something as wrong, or out of step with their inner moral compass. They are more likely to project out the Fi that was preexisting and defined. This would be Fi in action, though Fi as a function is internally structured.

    Ti (in action) tends to take a step out of the situation and mull through its components in a more objective manner. So the motion of it is toward the inner world.

    It may be I don't fully understand Fi, when I feel people see the most of it from me, it is because I already know exactly what the right and wrong is. Where I stand in a subjective manner, etc. Then I am just told I am stubborn as hell, and very much unwilling to bend on my view. Thank God for T in being an at least slight segway into a more interpersonal view.

    My Fi, is already developed, and doesn't budge.

  8. #38
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Te is probably the "best" way of making decisions, while Fi is the worst.
    Not necessarily. Te is taking a lot of objective information about how the world works, both good and bad. And guess what? The world is a vampire. :rolli: And Fi is a rat in a cage. And umm..

    Scratch that.

    Fi has it in mind to reform some of it. Moving things closer to an ideal (albeit slowly). For better or worse. Many Fi types are taking a humanitarian/universalistic approach to values, so I would say it's "for better" in many cases. Sometimes not. "Objective" is not necessarily good though.

  9. #39
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  10. #40
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I'm not sure how 'external to the mind' is that much different from 'outside personal thoughts'. At any rate, the meaning you seem to get from the assemblage of words I used is different from the one I intended to convey- so I'll rephrase: I personally was using 'objective' to describe that which exists outside personal feelings or thoughts. So, not only 'exists outside personal feelings', but also 'exists outside personal thoughts'.
    So, it is a value! And becomes more clearly recognised as such if "outside" is rendered as "uninfluenced by", viz INTPness' impressive description above.

Similar Threads

  1. Fi vs Fe compared to Ti vs Te: Additional personal impressions
    By YUI in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-07-2015, 02:39 PM
  2. Fi vs. Ti and active listening skills
    By The Great One in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-10-2013, 03:13 PM
  3. Difference in Fi vs Ti in the conclusion of a god
    By Azure Flame in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 111
    Last Post: 06-15-2013, 08:08 PM
  4. Romney vs. Obama; Te(Fi) vs. Ti(Fe)
    By Istbkleta in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-21-2012, 05:12 PM
  5. Fi vs. Ti
    By G-Virus in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-09-2008, 08:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO