User Tag List

First 9101112 Last

Results 101 to 110 of 115

  1. #101
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    So I don't think the inferior is *always* "unproductive."
    Apparently it isn't when it comes to concerns that don't conflict with other interests. So yeah, I goofed up by saying that. That's a point made in Quenk's book too. Like an ETJ may wind down at home and write all of their friends sentimental Christmas cards that'd make an IFP blush. I'm sure as we get older too, things branch out in ways that affect others productively as well. Like instead of just writing cards for friends, an ETJ might go above and beyond in helping others.. even become philanthropists.

  2. #102
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Apparently it isn't when it comes to concerns that don't conflict with other interests. So yeah, I goofed up by saying that. That's a point made in Quenk's book too. Like an ETJ may wind down at home and write all of their friends sentimental Christmas cards that'd make an IFP blush. I'm sure as we get older too, things branch out in ways that affect others productively as well. Like instead of just writing cards for friends, an ETJ might go above and beyond in helping others.. even become philanthropists.
    Sure, it will be used for more personal pursuits, like my Si. My Si has made me more aware of things like nutrition, and internal bodily states. My Si could even eventually earn income for me in the forum of inspiration for writing. But my Si is never going to enjoy looking up facts for a tedious essay or article, it's never going to make me "tidy" and I'm never going to care if a picture is crooked. I'm never.gonna.fucking.care. Don't ask me to detail work. I'll miss a spot, and I'll probably try to sneak out the back door to get away. I am essentially haphazard, weirdly enough, with all of my habits and rituals, they're acclimated to my internal time, not a set schedule or anyone's idea of "normal."

    Same with ETJ. They have that inferior Fi, sure, but early in life ethics aren't going to be their hugest priority... and when I'm all emotional about something, instead of trying to comfort me in some emotional way, they're gonna go "look: A. B. C....no big deal." That's great though, to get grounded in your Te by a mature TJ if you're being all emo, god it's great. It's bad with immature TJ who is wielding their own Fi issues at you, then you just might choke each other...

    OR ISJ in my case, with inferior Si. They have inferior Ne...and it often looks like them randomly being silly or pondering philosophical or even very strange things...but how are ISJs productive with that Ne? That's what I want to know. I'm very curious about that, actually. It must serve some purpose for them as they grow older.

    Sorry, MacGuffin. He's probably asking a moderator for a thread split even as I type this...

  3. #103
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Sure, it will be used for more personal pursuits, like my Si. My Si has made me more aware of things like nutrition, and internal bodily states. My Si could even eventually earn income for me in the forum of inspiration for writing. But my Si is never going to enjoy looking up facts for a tedious essay or article, it's never going to make me "tidy" and I'm never going to care if a picture is crooked. I'm never.gonna.fucking.care. Don't ask me to detail work. I'll miss a spot, and I'll probably try to sneak out the back door to get away.
    Your Si sounds like mine. I'm definitely not using it on the physical environment very much. Nor do I want detailed oriented work. I am detail oriented in going through information and trying to build better "holistic" views, I guess. I think it helps in trying to bridge gaps, or building illustrations or metaphors. It helps me recall things to keep adding in (uh.. or maybe that's Ne :confused. I don't want to present ideas that seem too random. I'm more idealistic. I like it when things "click" and snap together well. That all said, I'm still searching too.

  4. #104
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    This discussion has been really interesting but I think we should stop derailing poor MacGuffin's thread and get back on topic. So I have some questions for the Ti-users in relation to what we've been discussing:

    How do Ti-users come to their evaluative conclusions? How does this differ to Te? How do you feel about Te-style judgments on their subjective reasoning? To what degree are you personally invested in your logic? How do you justify subjective logic in world where quantifiable, empirical data is more valued?
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  5. #105
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    ^ don't worry, McMuffin loves it, he provides the ingredients and we make the sandwich ...
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #106
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    This discussion has been really interesting but I think we should stop derailing poor MacGuffin's thread and get back on topic. So I have some questions for the Ti-users in relation to what we've been discussing:

    How do Ti-users come to their evaluative conclusions? How does this differ to Te? How do you feel about Te-style judgments on their subjective reasoning? To what degree are you personally invested in your logic? How do you justify subjective logic in world where quantifiable, empirical data is more valued?
    In a way, it is on topic though. I find "versus" discussions kind of unhelpful and derailing of the wider issues myself. None of these functions work in isolation, as has been stated (and we all know that anyways). It's on topic somewhat though because the issue in question is how Fi types balance their perceptions and judgements. It's not about who's more objective or subjective. I could criticize Ti doms for not being open with a lot of "people issues", but even they have ways of understanding the world more than just through their dominant preference.

  7. #107
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    In a way, it is on topic though.
    In a way yes but we've managed to make it all about Fi/Te. A little balance would be good. The Ti-ers need to be grilled too!
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  8. #108
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    it's the typical Fe/Ti - Fi/Te conversational pattern when discussing F matters. Fe/Ti grills, Fi/Te spills.

    i am curious about Ti subjective objectivity. how it is objective. i acknowledge that it is, but i don't really understand it. Fi makes sense, it's internal and illogical. what is logic without empiricism? where does this sense of logic come from? how do you know when something is illogical?

  9. #109
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    In short: there are two different definitions of ‘objective’ and ‘subjective’ coming into play here, when saying Te is 2x as ‘objective’ and Fi is 2x as ‘subjective’.

    Both Fi and Ti are at the affect of ‘subjective’ truth- according to the first definition of ‘subjective’ listed above (individual experiences information as ‘true’, regardless of whether or not other individuals do). AND both Ti and Fi are ultimately aimed at seeking a ‘truth’ that can be considered as such collectively. BUT Ti seeks ‘objective’ (according to 2nd definition) collective ‘truth’ while Fi ‘subjective’ (according to 2nd definition) collective ‘truth’.
    (Now that I actually read it, I have some questions...)

    What's "collective" doing in there, again? I'd really want to say if a truth is measured by number of people attached to it, then it isn't ever going to be objective. But that's just me not subscribing to Fe. See, the above description seems heavily influenced by Fe inasmuch as the outer world is (apparently) taken to be formally (genuinely, objectively) organised by actual, existent, not determinate but definitely witnessable and countable, relationships between people. I, naturally, would demur. I would understand the outer world as formally, genuinely, objectively [etc etc etc] by processes and things viewed impersonally.

    I'd really prefer to say that Ti gets to be "objective" by virtue of withdrawing from the contingencies and exigencies of the outer world. The objectivity in question is (Jungian subjectivity and) the result of determinedly NOT taking objective human relationships into account. The Ti thinker--when thinkering--is not swayed toward harmony or the fudging of statements to respect other people's feelings.

    Fi would end up with a similar "objectivity". The Fi person describes universal values by virtue of actively removing the influence of objective external processes. The "values" become applicable universally. They're "objectively" right.


    Plausibly we have here a description of why introversion isn't a sickness. All versions of introversion do something of value. Actually, that's it, isn't it? Ti is objective precisely because it's a process of thought that removes itself from the external world. But it doesn't delve into a moribund inner sickness. Rather it extracts information and processes judgement, free from the restriction of the immediate environment.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  10. #110
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    it's the typical Fe/Ti - Fi/Te conversational pattern when discussing F matters. Fe/Ti grills, Fi/Te spills.

    i am curious about Ti subjective objectivity. how it is objective. i acknowledge that it is, but i don't really understand it. Fi makes sense, it's internal and illogical. what is logic without empiricism? where does this sense of logic come from? how do you know when something is illogical?
    Logic is simply a tool, you learn to use it like any other tool. Ti users seemingly are attracted to it at an early age - observing causality in real life.

    If X then Y.

Similar Threads

  1. Fi vs Fe compared to Ti vs Te: Additional personal impressions
    By YUI in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-07-2015, 02:39 PM
  2. Fi vs. Ti and active listening skills
    By The Great One in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-10-2013, 03:13 PM
  3. Difference in Fi vs Ti in the conclusion of a god
    By Azure Flame in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 111
    Last Post: 06-15-2013, 08:08 PM
  4. Romney vs. Obama; Te(Fi) vs. Ti(Fe)
    By Istbkleta in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-21-2012, 05:12 PM
  5. Fi vs. Ti
    By G-Virus in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-09-2008, 08:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO