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  1. #81
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    So, if I am right, and the originator of the concept of Ni couldn't see it in himself, what are we to make of Ni?
    That it also allows its users to get stuck on "invalid" perspectives. Jung's writing is vague. It lacks logical cohesion and simplification. He describes "Types" via details(Se) and perspectives(Ni) whereas an INTP would prefer definition in strict one-wording(Si) that is spiced with emphasis on relationships(Ne) with other ideas. An idea is defined by how it interacts with other ideas.

  2. #82
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thisica View Post
    [Or perhaps I'm tricking myself into believing it's difficult]
    Yes, you are. Introverted Intuition is information gathering that orientates around the subject and is intuitive. That's why it's called "Introverted Intuition." :rolli: To Introvertedly Intuit is to shift self towards a "novel perspective"(intuitive information). (In this case, the definition of "Novel" is subjective. The trait of an "idea" is subjective for the most part as well.) Try playing wordles, charades, word puzzles, or connecting dots with limited amount of lines or something.

  3. #83
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    That it also allows its users to get stuck on "invalid" perspectives. Jung's writing is vague. It lacks logical cohesion and simplification. He describes "Types" via details(Se) and perspectives(Ni) whereas an INTP would prefer definition in strict one-wording(Si) that is spiced with emphasis on relationships(Ne) with other ideas. An idea is defined by how it interacts with other ideas.
    Ooo! I like that description of Ne - "an idea is defined [Si] by how it interacts with other ideas [Ne]"

    So for Ni, it would be, "an idea is understood by its functionality [Ni] in the real world [Se]." Does that sound right?
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  4. #84
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Yes, you are. Introverted Intuition is information gathering that orientates around the subject and is intuitive. That's why it's called "Introverted Intuition." :rolli: To Introvertedly Intuit is to shift self towards a "novel perspective"(intuitive information). (In this case, the definition of "Novel" is subjective. The trait of an "idea" is subjective for the most part as well.) Try playing wordles, charades, word puzzles, or connecting dots with limited amount of lines or something.
    NO U

    If Jung spent his time investigating and, sadly for him, systematising the content of other people's cognition, what would his Si look like?



    *doesn't know the answer to Jung's type*
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #85
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    Synchronicity.. Is it just a coincidence.?? An intuitive mind rarely thinks so.

    Before I was really aware of what Typology was and I certainly had little education as far as the functions go..

    I described it as having access to your subconscious.. Everybody does.. or rather your subconscious has access to your conscious mind.
    it's probably a little of both. Your subconscious does not speak a particular language..It's knows the languages you know, and might even know every language ever spoken, but when it speaks, It speaks in metaphor , symbolism and mysticism. Even the words it uses when it does speak in a language, are just symbols. Your Subconscious sees more, feels more, hears more, smells more, processes and KNOWS more than your conscious mind does.

    SO what if the bridge between your subconscious , which is a realm of limitless potential, infinite ideas and where anything is possible, can be crossed more easily for some? What if the conscious mind in some people, just has a capacity or is more willing, for more reception to the messages the subconscious is sending, 24/7.. Even when we sleep the subconscious does not.
    I feel most Ni is just that; Communication between the conscious and subconscious mind.
    Some people just listen, can listen, or are more willing to listen, than others.

    One thing for certain, trying to explain or even remembering a dream* can be near impossible. But it has left it's emotional and intellectual impressions on you anyway.
    Then one day something triggers that impression and connections start being made.. Often very vague connections. often indescribable connections.
    It's at this point for the Ni user that something emerges (AH HA!), while for others, it is dismissed. This itself might not even be a conscious decision.

    *Dream, being conscious or unconscious, and just a word I am using to describe a "kind" of communication between the subconscious and conscious minds.

  6. #86
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    With all the threads about exploring your type, TG, this reply convinces me that you've got Ni in you.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Is it just me, or is it possible that I could be an S.....
    I fucking hate "symbolism".
    Sometimes I forget that, but sure enough, that thought keeps popping in my mind.
    Assigning greater meaning to things or events is fucking annoying.

    For someone to claim to be an Ni type while simultaneously decrying meaning and symbolism is probably the most obvious sign a person does not have a preference for Ni. Ni assigns meaning and symbolism as readily as breathing in and out. Those who have a strong preference for Ni will understand Gary Hartzler's comment on Ni:

    "Anything described that is devoid of associated images or symbolism seems barren or without life."
    Hartzler refers to Ni as "The Seer" and goes on to say:

    "The Seer wants to discern the meaning behind presented materials."
    Anyone who "fucking hates symbolism" or thinks "Assigning greater meaning to things or events is fucking annoying" is in my opinion, the last person on earth with a preference for Ni. What the anti-Ni comments do suggest, is someone who prefers to take information and events "as is," which is Se.

  7. #87
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I feel most Ni is just that; Communication between the conscious and subconscious mind.
    Some people just listen, can listen, or are more willing to listen, than others.
    I write poetry, not too badly, I think. Certainly it has turned out to be my main form of artistic expression.

    What its connection to Ni may I'm not sure but certainly I think of poetry as a kind of dialogue between the conscious and the subconscious. What often happens to me is that I have a point of inspiration - often a place that I've visited - that tends to get the juices flowing. But when I have written the poem, I discover that it is about something else. Well, it may be about a specific city or whatever, but without any intention on my part it turns out to be about...I don't know...my fear of loneliness; or the fact that I miss certain people in my life who have died; or the person I have a crush on; or some form of unfinished business in my life; or whatever. With NO intention on my part. And I re-read it and think, "ah, that's what's on my mind" or "uh oh, that's more on my mind than I thought it was." It really does turn out to be therapy as well as artistic expression, because it discloses my subconscious thoughts to me.
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  8. #88
    Senior Member Tabula's Avatar
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    Is it?

    It doesn't seem like many people here have a problem describing it.

    But AGREEING with the descriptions provided by others seems to be the issue, which makes sense, given how personal it is, and the Ni-ers' tendency to speak cryptically (at least by my standards) probably doesn't help ...

    I like to watch it, though, as to me, being a non Ni-er, it just looks like everyone is saying essentially the same things couched in a similar style, but through different metaphors or analogies, then "randomly" disagreeing with bits and pieces of another's, then using that to explain why they disagree with it... or something. It's kind of fascinating to watch knowing that someone is really understanding what, to me, looks like a conversation of people talking right past one another. But I just don't get it is all, which I guess explains the fascination.

    Sorry, don't mind me... carry on.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I write poetry, not too badly, I think. Certainly it has turned out to be my main form of artistic expression.

    What its connection to Ni may I'm not sure but certainly I think of poetry as a kind of dialogue between the conscious and the subconscious. What often happens to me is that I have a point of inspiration - often a place that I've visited - that tends to get the juices flowing. But when I have written the poem, I discover that it is about something else. Well, it may be about a specific city or whatever, but without any intention on my part it turns out to be about...I don't know...my fear of loneliness; or the fact that I miss certain people in my life who have died; or the person I have a crush on; or some form of unfinished business in my life; or whatever. With NO intention on my part. And I re-read it and think, "ah, that's what's on my mind" or "uh oh, that's more on my mind than I thought it was." It really does turn out to be therapy as well as artistic expression, because it discloses my subconscious thoughts to me.
    ... Yes!! this is good.. See when I sit down to write a poem, I have an idea , maybe just one line, but I believe I know where I want to go.
    But then as you said, by the time I am done, something else entirely, has emerged.
    And OH Yes!! It's catharsis, it purges and it's so revealing.
    Perhaps this is why my poetry has been called INFJ Poetry??

    Anyway.. I so totally relate to what you are expressing and would say what emerges from writing is often an aspect of Ni..
    Does everyone agree Stephen King Is an INFJ?? Listen to this guy try and explain where his ideas come from.. He often talks of fugue states and not even remembering what he has written, until he reads it.. He has described it as an almost "Possession".

  10. #90
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    For someone to claim to be an Ni type while simultaneously decrying meaning and symbolism is probably the most obvious sign a person does not have a preference for Ni. Ni assigns meaning and symbolism as readily as breathing in and out. Many in this forum who have a strong preference for Ni will understand this comment from Gary Hartzler:


    Hartzler refers to Ni as "The Seer" and goes on to say:



    Anyone who "fucking hates symbolism" or thinks "Assigning greater meaning to things or events is fucking annoying" is in my opinion, the last person on earth with a preference for Ni.
    That post was about visiting an estranged family with the argument that: "It would mean alot." "She is getting old and may not have another birthday." "The whole family is gathering out of respect." It was, believe it or not, a symbol of reconciliation, and I was being manipulated into it. It was the symbolism that this was somehow her last birthday party and the guilt behind forcing me to attend under that premise. When that was in fact not the case, and even if it were I could have visited another time.

    The reason I hate symbolism is because I have a tendency to get caught up in it. It almost seems that I can't look anywhere or do anything without having some sort of other world understanding of it. Since I seem to be the only one looking at these things, it makes me feel like I am insane. Or worse, helpless against it, and increasingly frustrated with people who allow such stupid things to happen all the time. Being out numbered, irl I am forced to become a conscious observer of all things oblivious.

    When I act upon it, it causes contention between myself and others. Specially when fueled by T. Since most of the time it is not provable, and even if it were, it would require being around people who are much more intelligent than I am. Loved my INTJ friend *tear*.

    Not to mention the types of people I tend to interact with. Who are either fascinated by my mind and perception to the point of leeching onto it trying to suck it dry (mostly nfp types). Or being offended, thinking I am somehow smarter than they are, and afraid I am somehow going to use knowledge I am aware of and they aren't, against them. Causing strong people to become paranoid, and weak people to become suspicious.

    So yeah, I hate my N. I would rather be an S. Even when I am forcing myself to be S, I still can't escape the N I just don't express it as much. That seems to make everyone pretty happy.

    Whether it is Ne or Ni is completely debatable, but I don't think the argument you made, has ruled out being an Ni user. Since another Ni user would know that surely there is probably more to the story than that.

    I would have no knowledge of this information, if it didn't come naturally for me to pick up on these things. This whole post reeks of greater meaning!



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