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  1. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    This whole thing is the chicken or the egg. With the answer being in where you spend most of your time. Gathering, or synthesizing. I tend to gather quickly, and synthesize slower. Due to the amount of information I need.
    I can really relate to this. The realizations are rapid, but deciding how I'm going to implement the new information is gradual.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  2. #142
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Is that the best you can do?
    Lol, That was a segmented portion of my post Jag!

    It tied in with the rest you know.

  3. #143
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I've heard someone say that Ni can recognize what something isn't, even if it can't describe what it is. What are your thoughts on that? Accurate or no?

  4. #144
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I've heard someone say that Ni can recognize what something isn't, even if it can't describe what it is. What are your thoughts on that? Accurate or no?
    My only analogy for this, is when I say (and I have spoken about this before) listen to a piece of music and see the missing melody.

    The conceptualization of Ni, I would say does allow for seeing what is there as well as what is not there.

    I always attributed that to my ability to see the whole, or what makes something complete.



    This is sheer personal experience, it may be different for others.

  5. #145
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    How does Se play a role in this? On what criteria is the function or meaning determined? How is "context" identified?


    ---

    1k posts. woot.
    Congratz on 1k.

    In my analogy, the criteria are the type(s) and order(s) of arguments submitted to the function. So, for instance, in C#, Convert.ToString(<arg>) can take an integer, and turn it into "1" or "3" or whatever integer it is, or a boolean, and turn that into "true" or "false", or a double (floating point), and give a decimal string representation, and so on. On one level, it's totally obvious what each kind of variable should turn into in string form, but in practice, each is a different transformation. So the same intuitive reasoning that says the integer one should be "1" and the decimal three point one four one five nine should be "3.14159", is how Ni feels about other intuitive transformations: that it's obvious that "1" is one, and so on and so forth. Of course, this is a simple, obvious transformation, but think about how sophisticated it really is, when each argument is a very different type, that while numerically we know 1.0 is the same as 1, but the floating point number 1.0 is NOT the same as the integer 1. There's a lot of unseen processing that goes one behind the scenes in order to preserve the meaning of Convert.ToString() so that it does the "common sense" operation. Ni does that same kind of unseen processing, preserving meaning, even as context and usage change.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thisica View Post
    Apologies for sounding a little harsh I just know that the idea of a limitless imagination makes no sense to me...but I didn't realise [when I was typing that message up] that other people wouldn't see it that way. Bubbles are, after all, quite flexible.
    Thank you.. It's possible that the imagination has limits, but then here is the kicker.. because.. "nothing is impossible if it can be imagined".
    That could cause one heck of paradox.
    I understand that up to this point our lives know more limitations than possibilities in general.
    But every now and then a great leap is made just because someone used imagination.
    It its the single most powerful source of creativity we know.. I like to believe that our potential knows only the limits that we ourselves, will chose to put on it. This could be wrong.. But when you consider that in the grand scheme of things, humanity is still in it's infancy.. Then the possibilities seem endless from that stand point, even there is an actual limit.

    My biggest fear is that, we also have a great capacity for destruction. Thus, we will make ourselves extinct before we ever got to where we can get to, to find out if there is a limit, or not.

  7. #147
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Symbolism was everything to Jung and his entire body of work which spanned more than 60 years. It's not as if it's a secret that only a select few know. Some have even speculated Jung was INTJ. My, how "repellant."
    You asserted that an aversion to symbolism indicates that a person is "the last person on earth with a preference for Ni." I replied that your conclusion doesn't follow and pointed out an exception. Your rebuttal appears to assume that you only need point out an exception, when in fact you need to demonstrate that the exception cannot be true, or otherwise make a positive argument for the necessity of an affinity for "symbolism".

    The only alleged INTJ you can speak for, uumlau, is yourself. Not 10, 20 and certainly not "most." If symbolism doesn't appeal to you, personally, that's fine. To think you can claim what most INTJs would find "repellant" is a bit pretentious. For the record, there are INTJs with Literature and Psychology degrees. Symbolism, and understanding it well, plays a large role in both.
    It doesn't have to be most. In fact, you say it's fine if I don't, not that I'm especially averse to symbolism. Rather, I can see an INTJ (including myself, not being averse to symbolism per se), being repelled by certain kinds of symbolism, and speaking in gross generalities about hating all symbolism. All I need is one xNxJ expressing disgust at sloppy reasoning based on symbolism.

    As far as INTJs in this forum, you're not going to catch Z, who is an INTJ, taking an anti-symbolism stance.
    Again, your counterexamples don't demonstrate your original point nor disprove mine.

    I note that your quotations mention symbols in a few places, but it is but a part of the whole, not the entirety.

    FWIW, I respect your opinion on the matter of symbolism, and yes, it's one of many aspects of Ni; I just happen to disagree with your particular generalization that I pointed out. I would think you'd be the last person to assert that kind of black and white litmus test for typological analysis.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  8. #148
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    About symbols.. What are words?? Symbols for abstract and concrete concepts.. Symbol is a symbol for symbol..

    About knowing what something is not.. This is great way to define things. It can just be very tedious and long.. since there are so many things that something is not and only one thing that something is.

    Just saying.. carry on

  9. #149
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I've heard someone say that Ni can recognize what something isn't, even if it can't describe what it is. What are your thoughts on that? Accurate or no?
    I think this is typical of any of the four introverted functions. Fi knows what doesn't feel right. Ti knows what isn't logical. Si knows what isn't real. Ni knows when the wrong meanings have been ascribed, or the wrong approach is being made to a problem. All of these are subjective opinions, not genuine truth, but for the introverted function user, it's ingrained and difficult not to trust the assumptions being made.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  10. #150
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    You asserted that an aversion to symbolism [....]
    My post was in response to your comments to TG where you mentioned her Ni or something to that effect. Frankly, if she didn't have XNtJ in her profile at this time, I'd bet a c-note you never would have said a word about Ni.

    And I stand by my comments. I don't think someone who prefers Ni is going to say this:

    Is it just me, or is it possible that I could be an S.....
    I fucking hate "symbolism".
    Sometimes I forget that, but sure enough, that thought keeps popping in my mind.
    Assigning greater meaning to things or events is fucking annoying.
    Nowhere in her quote are these words you posted:

    Fuzzy-wuzzy touchy-feely symbols
    I still don't know why you posted those silly words.

    FWIW, I respect your opinion on the matter of symbolism, and yes, it's one of many aspects of Ni; I just happen to disagree with your particular generalization that I pointed out. I would think you'd be the last person to assert that kind of black and white litmus test for typological analysis.
    In your prior post, you claimed to know what "most INTJs" would find "repelling" but I'm the one who made a generalization? You're certainly an amusing guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Google
    RELIGIOUS SYMBOLISM AND PHYSICS
    If some joker is comparing religious symbolism and physics on the net, some INTJs better run.

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