User Tag List

First 21011121314 Last

Results 111 to 120 of 199

  1. #111
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    It's impossible to access a perspective that's "more" than your own by definition. But I know what you're saying -- I spend a lot of time trying to think of many different narratives to describe the same progression of events. I try to think of all the ways people could see that progression. But doing that IS my perspective.



    I kinda disagree here. The "absolute truth" is basically inaccessible. We can only come up with systems based on our potentially faulty senses and biases.



    I have no doubt you're an Ni user.

    Anyway, this all started because I defined Ne and Ni and you disagreed. Maybe you can give me a reason my definitions don't work.... Like, give me an example of something that's Ni that my definition wouldn't label Ni.
    I did not "disagree" with you and I apologize if I came across as doing so.. Perhaps I also lack diplomacy at times and I seem to leave out pertinent information that I seem to assume people just know. I am learning my intention is not always nearly as clear as I would have hoped it was.
    To me, I was suggesting that there might be more to it, is all..

  2. #112
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I did not "disagree" with you and I apologize if I came across as doing so.. Perhaps I also lack diplomacy at times and I seem to leave out pertinent information that I seem to assume people just know. I am learning my intention is not always nearly as clear as I would have hoped it was.
    To me, I was suggesting that there might be more to it, is all..
    I hear ya. I didn't think your diplomacy was off or anything. Just wondering how my definitions can be better defined. If you have any ideas, I'd like to hear!

    Edit: definitions defined

  3. #113
    ThatGirl
    Guest

    Default

    I should add the other part of N that I experience is watching a bunch of things happening, and the motion of interactions become formless not assigned to any specific words people are saying. Then realizing, actually this is what the fuck is going on, through the ability to filter all the insignificant portions people get caught up in and see the foundational structure.

  4. #114
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    12,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Edgar who swore up and down I was an ESTP, changed his mind within 10 minutes of meeting me.
    That's not impressive. He thought Marm was INFJ and JJ was ISFJ.
    Dear God . . .

  5. #115
    ThatGirl
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    That's not impressive. He thought Marm was INFJ and JJ was ISFJ.
    Dear God . . .
    Okay that was a bad example. Lol!

  6. #116
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    12,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Okay that was a bad example. Lol!
    Now watch, Edgar will send me a nasty rep.

  7. #117
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,670

    Default

    It can't be described since Ni is everything that can't be attached to any other function.


    Is it about memories ? No
    Is it aboout efficiency ? No
    Is it about observing physical objects ? No
    Is it about values ? No
    Etc.......


    So basically Ni is what is left when you define 7 "normal" function.
    The problem with Ni is that it is extremly vague since there is nothing you can trull compare it with. It is not extroverted function so that you observe it on other people. Also it is not a introvered judging function like Ti or Fi that can be detected easily as well if you know where to look. Plus it is not some kind of a memory data bank you can rely upon.


    So what that means ? It means that this function is not about physical world and it is not about judgment.


    In other words the question why it is "So hard to describe Ni" is like the question
    "How do describe something that does not have size, shape, color, location or purpose to the person that has never experianced or encountered something like that ?"


    I mean it is not quite like this but I think this analogy shows very well a few roots of this problem. Especially since Ni is not that much about what you think but how you think. However this process is extremly unlinear so it is impossible to simply put it into words. Especially because the process has stared at your birth (or even before birth) what means that as a person that is strong in Ni can't explain their opinions properly since the person you are talking to doesn't have the decades of that process behind it. So there are really high chances that the person will take your words at the face value.


    In my personal opinion these Ni hunches are exactly the consequence of this process. Since Ni sub-consciously reads the entire process in a blink and trows out the quick conclusion. However since the huge amount of data as been analyzed the hunch is often correct or at least it was not completly unfounded.


    However since Ni is not closely related to anything in the real wrold it also frees "the uses" from that world. What is probably the main reason why Ni-doms are usually so detached from society , environment or perhaps even logic.


    Another problem with Ni is exacly that it is a "way that you think" instead of "what you think". What means that I have a number of ways of looking at things.
    I can have this visions/hunches, seeing thing from other persons perspective, mix unrelated ideas without any logic, watching what will be the long term cosequence of event x ...... etc. Or perhaps it can be a mixture of those abstract processes. (what is actaully the case most of the time)


    What means that the ways of seeing things multiply with each other so you get perspectives like axb or axbxc or axbxd or axdxgxz or bxdxg ....... etc.

    I know that this is abstract but try to think that a=hunch or d= seeing the outcome in the far future or g= seeing the battlefield from other persons perspective.
    So when you get through all the combination you will realize that the number of possible perspectives is quite large even if you have only a few "elements".


    What is probably the reason by NJs don't like definitions that much. Since with Ni things are much too fluid for some "concrete definitions"


    Not to mention that this is only defining of perspective. So when you process the actually data the number of usually multiplies even further and that point you need to stop and start writing stuff since your mind will need a focus in external world to stabilize the observing process. Especially since many ideas and conclusions will be at the at the focus of your conscious briefly and if you don't catch them it is very likely that you will need to wait for days or even longer for that idea to show up again. You know that it was a good idea but you simply don't remember the idea.


    The Ni process/approach is very useful in a lot of ways. However it is often not very paractical since most people don't understand it (even if they know about MBTI)
    or it makes things a way too complex for practical use. So the only thing that will come out of the Ni user is pretty short and blunt opinion. What is because of two reasons: it would take too long to explain this complex/multi-dimensional concept and because often even the Ni user is not trully sure how he or she ended with this conclusion or opinion.


    For example it took me about 2 hours to write this post since I have lost alot of good ideas and discriptions along the way. Since it took a while to reflect upon how my mind works. So it is quite possible that my view is not identical with how some other people see Ni. Even if I say that there is more to my Ni then it writes in this large post.

  8. #118
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I hear ya. I didn't think your diplomacy was off or anything. Just wondering how my definitions can be better defined. If you have any ideas, I'd like to hear!

    Edit: definitions defined


    I am not sure .. I can't even define my own definitions. So I am not sure I am qualified to define anyone eles's

  9. #119
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    The Ni process/approach is very useful in a lot of ways. However it is often not very paractical since most people don't understand it (even if they know about MBTI) or it makes things a way too complex for practical use. So the only thing that will come out of the Ni user is pretty short and blunt opinion. What is because of two reasons: it would take too long to explain this complex/multi-dimensional concept and because often even the Ni user is not trully sure how he or she ended with this conclusion or opinion.
    One thing that I've noticed is that Ni can overexplain simple things, yet given something terribly complex, can give a simple explanation (via Te/Fe) that yields new understanding to others, though some might be nitpicky about the explanation's accuracy and completeness. E.g., there is nothing obvious about how to derive Newton's law of gravity from observation alone, as Newton did, but it's a very simple physical law with complex and far-reaching implications.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  10. #120
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    It can't be described since Ni is everything that can't be attached to any other function.


    Is it about memories ? No
    Is it aboout efficiency ? No
    Is it about observing physical objects ? No
    Is it about values ? No
    Etc.......


    So basically Ni is what is left when you define 7 "normal" function.
    The problem with Ni is that it is extremly vague since there is nothing you can trull compare it with. It is not extroverted function so that you observe it on other people. Also it is not a introvered judging function like Ti or Fi that can be detected easily as well if you know where to look. Plus it is not some kind of a memory data bank you can rely upon.


    So what that means ? It means that this function is not about physical world and it is not about judgment.


    In other words the question why it is "So hard to describe Ni" is like the question
    "How do describe something that does not have size, shape, color, location or purpose to the person that has never experianced or encountered something like that ?"


    I mean it is not quite like this but I think this analogy shows very well a few roots of this problem. Especially since Ni is not that much about what you think but how you think. However this process is extremly unlinear so it is impossible to simply put it into words. Especially because the process has stared at your birth (or even before birth) what means that as a person that is strong in Ni can't explain their opinions properly since the person you are talking to doesn't have the decades of that process behind it. So there are really high chances that the person will take your words at the face value.


    In my personal opinion these Ni hunches are exactly the consequence of this process. Since Ni sub-consciously reads the entire process in a blink and trows out the quick conclusion. However since the huge amount of data as been analyzed the hunch is often correct or at least it was not completly unfounded.


    However since Ni is not closely related to anything in the real wrold it also frees "the uses" from that world. What is probably the main reason why Ni-doms are usually so detached from society , environment or perhaps even logic.


    Another problem with Ni is exacly that it is a "way that you think" instead of "what you think". What means that I have a number of ways of looking at things.
    I can have this visions/hunches, seeing thing from other persons perspective, mix unrelated ideas without any logic, watching what will be the long term cosequence of event x ...... etc. Or perhaps it can be a mixture of those abstract processes. (what is actaully the case most of the time)


    What means that the ways of seeing things multiply with each other so you get perspectives like axb or axbxc or axbxd or axdxgxz or bxdxg ....... etc.

    I know that this is abstract but try to think that a=hunch or d= seeing the outcome in the far future or g= seeing the battlefield from other persons perspective.
    So when you get through all the combination you will realize that the number of possible perspectives is quite large even if you have only a few "elements".


    What is probably the reason by NJs don't like definitions that much. Since with Ni things are much too fluid for some "concrete definitions"


    Not to mention that this is only defining of perspective. So when you process the actually data the number of usually multiplies even further and that point you need to stop and start writing stuff since your mind will need a focus in external world to stabilize the observing process. Especially since many ideas and conclusions will be at the at the focus of your conscious briefly and if you don't catch them it is very likely that you will need to wait for days or even longer for that idea to show up again. You know that it was a good idea but you simply don't remember the idea.


    The Ni process/approach is very useful in a lot of ways. However it is often not very paractical since most people don't understand it (even if they know about MBTI)
    or it makes things a way too complex for practical use. So the only thing that will come out of the Ni user is pretty short and blunt opinion. What is because of two reasons: it would take too long to explain this complex/multi-dimensional concept and because often even the Ni user is not trully sure how he or she ended with this conclusion or opinion.


    For example it took me about 2 hours to write this post since I have lost alot of good ideas and discriptions along the way. Since it took a while to reflect upon how my mind works. So it is quite possible that my view is not identical with how some other people see Ni. Even if I say that there is more to my Ni then it writes in this large post.
    This is the logical explanation of much of what I have been trying to say. I obviously lack the verbal organization that you have.
    But I totally get every word of what you are saying.

Similar Threads

  1. Why is it important to form your own opinions?
    By balloongod in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-15-2017, 08:23 PM
  2. [NF] Do You Find it Difficult to Describe Someone When Asked?
    By Dreamer in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 12-19-2016, 09:51 AM
  3. Why is it wrong to oppress people?
    By Journey in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 04-14-2008, 01:29 PM
  4. WHY can't I become someone else? Why is it not possible to really change?
    By mysavior in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-22-2007, 02:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO