User Tag List

First 910111213 Last

Results 101 to 110 of 199

  1. #101
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I am not saying we should or shouldn't.. I am saying it is not. We strive for order and that is noble.. But we cannot deny something just because we cannot define it.
    Okay, maybe I get where you're coming from.... You're saying the world we live in doesn't necessarily follow simple laws (which I disagree with but whatever), that personality is too complex to define simply, etc...

    The way I look at it is that we're stuck in this world with a drive to explain (human nature). We may as well take the data we see and try to put it into coherent systems. That's what MBTI is. Since the goal of the system is to describe cognitive behaviors, we should come up with the most efficient definitions for the terms we use in these descriptions. If we DON'T have simple definitions, the functions are useless as two people can disagree about describing the same behavior.

    Sure, the world is complicated. But so what? The point of language is description. We should do that as efficiently as possible. A good definition is one that describes something well in the least words possible.

    Without chaos there can be no order.
    To be honest, this means nothing to me. I have no idea how it's relevant either.

    Feelings, intuitions, hunches and emotions defy logic..
    How? The brain is a physical thing. Physical things follow physical laws.

    There is always logic.

    Defining them wont change their nature. That is a fallacy of conscious existence.
    There is much more going on than meets the eye..and there is nothing "smoke and mirrors" and about it.
    I have no idea what this means.

  2. #102
    garbage
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I am not saying we should or shouldn't.. I am saying it is not. We strive for order and that is noble.. But we cannot deny something just because we cannot define it.
    Without chaos there can be no order.

    Feelings, intuitions, hunches and emotions defy logic.. Defining them wont change their nature. That is a fallacy of conscious existence.
    There is much more going on than meets the eye..and there is nothing "smoke and mirrors" and about it.
    Nobody's trying to change or deny anything about the subject; we're just trying to understand it.

  3. #103
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    My personal experience with Ni is that it works like this.

    I was having a conversation with a ventrillo member and analyzing their personality based on the picture of their hand submitted in the sexuality sub forum. I went into some detail. After being told I was fairly accurate, I was told I can not gather that type of information from a picture alone.

    My response was, "Well it isn't just the picture alone. It is how you chose to pose your hand, the state of your fingers, the background, over all health, why you chose this photo to represent yourself as a hand, and when you chose to post it."

    His response, "That is Ni."

    Am I wrong?
    Actually that's more Ne. It's based on things happening in the world.

    An Ni user would probably have trouble giving reasons for their opinion. (Remember our last discussion about your type?)

  4. #104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thisica View Post
    I have looked at various threads through the intertubes, and also some of the references to MBTI-type stuff, but I am puzzled by this common feature of the function.

    [Or perhaps I'm tricking myself into believing it's difficult, since I'm Ni-dom...]
    Functions can be tricky to describe at all, but Ni as a hero function seems very rare in the general population. Could it be as simple as that?
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  5. #105
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    My response was, "Well it isn't just the picture alone. It is how you chose to pose your hand, the state of your fingers, the background, over all health, why you chose this photo to represent yourself as a hand, and when you chose to post it."

    His response, "That is Ni."

    Am I wrong?

    I think this is similar to what I posted a while back about everyday-Ni and having a pretty good read on a person - or at the very least, reasonable probabilities/hunches- based on very few details. Taking one thing and extrapolating from there what that would tend to *imply* about other aspects.

    For example, I know one thing about a guy, and that's that he drives a high-end BMW. What I would take from that is, a) he either has a reasonable salary, which means he'd be at VP level or above or else sales / something more lucrative like that, in which case he either values the car itself and its technical specs, and/or recognizes that with the clientele he works with, owning a bmw would be 'necessary' to fulfilling his role/image in the way he thinks he needs to fulfill, b) or he's in a lot of ccard debt because he wants the bmw even though he can't afford it due to similar reasons for wanting it as in a, but for him it would be more tied to image/status, c)he probably also tends to spend exposable income in other similar veins, with more high-end purchases, d) probably has a large house, e) probably wears expensive clothes, f) probably works a lot and probably enjoys his work and thus doesn't devote huge amts of quality time to endeavors outside of work and such.... etc etc, you get the idea.

    Now it goes without saying that in many ways these are just projections, but I would say reasonable ones, and of course certain 'projections' might be off. But I think this is general what Ni-ers do in a split second, when encountered with almost anything -- taking something and looking at implications / other things very likely that also tie into that initial one thing.

    I realize this is taking something and extrapolating out to 'predict' other things, but as with the book analogy earlier, it's a similar concept imo - with the book and page-reshuffling, it was simply taking various seemingly unrelated things and tying them into a single truth.

    My example seems kinda similar to yours, ThatGirl - the ony difference is that your example factors in many things to come to an idea, and mine took just one thing to project other things that are likely as a result.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  6. #106
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    8,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    it was simply taking various seemingly unrelated things and tying them into a single truth.
    To clarify so it doesn't sound like Ne, Ni fills in the blanks instead of relying solely on external information gathering.

  7. #107
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    To clarify so it doesn't sound like Ne, Ni fills in the blanks instead of relying solely on external information gathering.
    Yes, thank you. This is what I'm trying to say. So you might have a starting point that's external, but will fill in the blanks from there. (I mean, EVERY one is going to be receiving and utilizing external data to some degree in order to refine some of their internal processes -- Se and Te/Fe for INxJ's, for example. No one lives in a vacuum where there's no external data feeding in)
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  8. #108
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Okay, maybe I get where you're coming from.... You're saying the world we live in doesn't necessarily follow simple laws (which I disagree with but whatever), that personality is too complex to define simply, etc...

    The way I look at it is that we're stuck in this world with a drive to explain (human nature). We may as well take the data we see and try to put it into coherent systems. That's what MBTI is. Since the goal of the system is to describe cognitive behaviors, we should come up with the most efficient definitions for the terms we use in these descriptions. If we DON'T have simple definitions, the functions are useless as two people can disagree about describing the same behavior.

    Sure, the world is complicated. But so what? The point of language is description. We should do that as efficiently as possible. A good definition is one that describes something well in the least words possible.



    To be honest, this means nothing to me. I have no idea how it's relevant either.



    How? The brain is a physical thing. Physical things follow physical laws.

    There is always logic.



    I have no idea what this means.
    I know what you mean and I know what I mean.. make what you will of that, I guess .

    I feel like a lot of people are missing the point that Ni is about "perspectives" and understanding more than your own, by incorporating other perspectives into a larger framework and accessing those perspectives while looking at your own.

    No single perspective is the absolute truth, the more perspectives, the more absolute truth is uncovered..
    However we are not a collective.

    Here is a completely unrelated random thought??..

    Every time you look in the mirror you are using Ni.. This is why every time you look at yourself you see something different. What I mean is.. Some days you think you look great while others you think you are average and yet on others, you find yourself to quite unpleasant to the eyes.
    What if every time you look at yourself, you are actually seeing the emotional response to your features that someone else has felt??
    What if your subconscious picked up that emotional response to your features, stored it and presented to you in the form of how you perceive your own reflection?

    You might say I have quite the imagination.. But every single Ni description I have ever read contains the word "imagination".

  9. #109
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I know what you mean and I know what I mean.. make what you will of that, I guess .

    I feel like a lot of people are missing the point that Ni is about "perspectives" and understanding more than your own, by incorporating other perspectives into a larger framework and accessing those perspectives while looking at your own.
    It's impossible to access a perspective that's "more" than your own by definition. But I know what you're saying -- I spend a lot of time trying to think of many different narratives to describe the same progression of events. I try to think of all the ways people could see that progression. But doing that IS my perspective.

    No single perspective is the absolute truth, the more perspectives, the more absolute truth is uncovered..
    I kinda disagree here. The "absolute truth" is basically inaccessible. We can only come up with systems based on our potentially faulty senses and biases.

    However we are not a collective.

    Here is a completely unrelated random thought??..

    Every time you look in the mirror you are using Ni.. This is why every time you look at yourself you see something different. What I mean is.. Some days you think you look great while others you think you are average and yet on others, you find yourself to quite unpleasant to the eyes.
    What if every time you look at yourself, you are actually seeing the emotional response to your features that someone else has felt??
    What if your subconscious picked up that emotional response to your features, stored it and presented to you in the form of your own reflection?

    You might say I have quite the imagination.. But every single Ni description I have ever read contains the word "imagination".
    I have no doubt you're an Ni user.

    Anyway, this all started because I defined Ne and Ni and you disagreed. Maybe you can give me a reason my definitions don't work.... Like, give me an example of something that's Ni that my definition wouldn't label Ni.

  10. #110
    ThatGirl
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    My example seems kinda similar to yours, ThatGirl - the ony difference is that your example factors in many things to come to an idea, and mine took just one thing to project other things that are likely as a result.
    Well for you it was a car, for me it was a picture.

    Both happen upon a glance.

    I just looked at the hand and instantly knew this was a sensitive, and artistic person, who was a bit of a perfectionist, and probably overly judgmental of others, though is likely to govern themselves by the same standards, and picky as hell, with an eye for detail.

    Synthesize that information together, and you have a pretty good idea who the person is, and even more so, how they are likely to interpret certain situations. By this time, you are taking the next action, or making the next comment, you already have an idea of 1 of 3 ways the person will feel or act from that point. Each bit of information just re-tweaking the existing model into a bigger and bigger in depth understanding. Verifying much of what you already knew was true, and throwing out the parts that were just general assumptions. Then you have a complete perspective, and that ahh moment.

    Thats when they say the next sentence..... and suddenly you realized the conversation has only progressed two sentences worth. Lol.

    That is usually when I smile. And look at the person with utter amusement. They are like....what?

    Thats how it works for me. If that isn't Ni wtf is it?



    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    To clarify so it doesn't sound like Ne, Ni fills in the blanks instead of relying solely on external information gathering.
    Yes

Similar Threads

  1. Why is it important to form your own opinions?
    By balloongod in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-15-2017, 08:23 PM
  2. [NF] Do You Find it Difficult to Describe Someone When Asked?
    By Dreamer in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 12-19-2016, 09:51 AM
  3. Why is it wrong to oppress people?
    By Journey in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 04-14-2008, 01:29 PM
  4. WHY can't I become someone else? Why is it not possible to really change?
    By mysavior in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-22-2007, 02:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO