I don't get this NF-NT pairing thing

[brainheart]

different people look for different things out of their mates. some NFs prefer the balance that NTs give to their F and have the N there as common way of seeing the world. some NFs prefer clones from themselves as mates who they can live in their own little la la land with etc etc. its just a personal preference, it seems to be pretty common for people to look for qualities that offer balance for them in their mates

Dude, I'm talking about SPs here. Tell me how an SP is a clone of an NF. My SP husband doesn't understand my la la land in the slightest, while an INTP friend gets it.

While NF and SP appear to have nothing in common according to Keirsey's temperament matrix; Linda Berens introduced a "cross-factor" that ties them together, and explains what you describe.
Both are "motive-focused", which basically is a people focus as opposed to task focus. They like to work with others rather than force them into a structure. So yes, they will seem more "fun" to each other than the more serious NT's and SJ's.
Meanwhile, of course, what you will have in common with the NT's is the iNtuition, and you will differ on T/F (impersonal vs personal and emotional).

NT's and SJ's will sync more in maintaining structures; though they will disagree as to whether the structures are concrete (organizations, etc) or abstract (plans, ideas).

Thank you for this insightful answer, Eric B.

 

[INTP]

Dude, I'm talking about SPs here. Tell me how an SP is a clone of an NF. My SP husband doesn't understand my la la land in the slightest, while an INTP friend gets it.

if you tell me first why do you think that i was talking about you and your husband

 

[skylights]

As a wonky/baby Fi user, Fi comes on strong for me too when it manifests so I understand where you're coming from completely. Think of it this way. How many NTJs or ENTPs like "losing" or walking away? INTPs are naturally passive-aggressive so it's easier for them although one way to push their buttons in return is to erode on or devastate the framework of their arguments.

hahahah, so true.

my brother (INTP, e5w4) likes to bait me then walk away, it drives me up a wall. SO hard not to react. but it's hilarious to ignore him, because he gets really antsy if he doesn't get the reaction he's looking for. he'll come back and check on you, annoy you until you react.

I was thinking about this today! My dad is an INTP and my mom an ENFJ. My almost bff is an ENFJ. I suspect that my closest male friend is an NFJ as well. I find it natural to talk to NFJs and NTPs actually (but it's a bit harder to get that close to NTPs sometimes). I suspect the NFJs think I'm a lost soul that needs some direction (their words, not mine) so they take me under their wings.

lol, i can see that. i balance well with NFJs because i'm curious about their inner selves, which is mysterious to me, and they're curious about my behavior, which is mysterious to them, and you know curiosity kills an N. i suspect we both take joy in "fixing" one another too, even though we find relief in one another at the same time.

i like NTPs a lot, and having 3 in my close family, i am well acquainted with how much fun NFP-NTP relations can be - but i do connect more solidly/fluidly with NJs. i feel like i'm probably going to end up with an NJ significant other, because there's such an ease of "grounding" and focusing that i feel with many NJs. somehow the interaction feels right.

 

[brainheart]

if you tell me first why do you think that i was talking about you and your husband

Cause I'm the OP and you didn't quote or refer to any other post. So tell me why I would think you were talking about someone else...

 

[OrangeAppled]

Come to think of it, of all the temperaments, NTs are least common among my friends, but quite common in my dating history. As for female friends, well, female NTs are just less typical. Most of my female buddies are FPs with a few ISFJs.

I find I have a lot in common with SPs as friends. We often like the same things (art, music, food, culture), but for different reasons. The different reasons part is why I generally don't date them. I agree with the OP though - they get me out of my head, doing stuff, having fun, experiencing life. NTs and I are more likely to sit around discussing, because we can actually talk about things we often don't get to talk about. Otherwise silent INTx types can become quite talkative around me.

As for guy friends, NFs, especially NFJs, tend to populate my set, with a few SJs tossed in. There's a certain kind of ISTJ guy I get along with well (and a certain kind I don't clique with...).

However, the NTs I've been closest to were generally romantic interests (Always INTx. I'm not close to any ENTx types; I only know some from a distance, as mutual acquaintances.). We cliqued because we had tons to talk about & the ease of N communication to facilitate that. I suppose our mutual interests are in the intellectual realm, whereas with the SPs its in the tangible world. Of course, NFs feel the most like kindred spirits .

 

[rav3n]

my brother (INTP, e5w4) likes to bait me then walk away, it drives me up a wall. SO hard not to react. but it's hilarious to ignore him, because he gets really antsy if he doesn't get the reaction he's looking for. he'll come back and check on you, annoy you until you react.

A very consistent INTP fear, the fear of being invisible.

 

[mmhmm]

it's the flow that i love. the not having to discuss the mechanics
of 'how we work' but just running off on the energy that we just
work. awesome. so fun.

 

[INTP]

Cause I'm the OP and you didn't quote or refer to any other post. So tell me why I would think you were talking about someone else...

because they way i used words refers to that i was talking about NF-NT pairings generally.

how does this for example refer to that i was talking about you in any way:

"different people look for different things out of their mates."

seriously wtf

 

[skylights]

er well i hope you guys don't mind me butting in, but INTP and brainheart, there's this pattern that happens between me and my INTP dad sometimes...

> TP makes general statement
> FP applies statement to self, does not find true and/or pleasant
> FP gets annoyed at TP for statement
> TP gets annoyed at FP for misinterpretation

just... that kind of looks like what might have happened here too...

:blushing:

 

[INTP]

er well i hope you guys don't mind me butting in, but INTP and brainheart, there's this pattern that happens between me and my INTP dad sometimes...

> TP makes general statement
> FP applies statement to self, does not find true and/or pleasant
> FP gets annoyed at TP for statement
> TP gets annoyed at FP for misinterpretation

just... that kind of looks like what might have happened here too...

:blushing:

i noticed that, and yes its pretty annoying when people fail to read and then start to act like they got some sand in their vagina

 

[NPcomplete]

lol, i can see that. i balance well with NFJs because i'm curious about their inner selves, which is mysterious to me, and they're curious about my behavior, which is mysterious to them, and you know curiosity kills an N. i suspect we both take joy in "fixing" one another too, even though we find relief in one another at the same time.

i like NTPs a lot, and having 3 in my close family, i am well acquainted with how much fun NFP-NTP relations can be - but i do connect more solidly/fluidly with NJs. i feel like i'm probably going to end up with an NJ significant other, because there's such an ease of "grounding" and focusing that i feel with many NJs. somehow the interaction feels right.

Very true. NTPs make great friends but we're very similar (I can't decide if I'm an NTP or an NFP but from what I've seen, we're waaayyy too similar). It's probably the lack of mystery or maybe something else (must think more about this) but NFJs have something very nurturing about them (or maybe that's what they want me to believe. It's probably for my own good).

 

[Southern Kross]

I certainly get along with NTs very well.

True, they don't tend to have the same strong magnetic quality as NFs have for me. I often find their manner less appealing at first (eg. weird/aggressive/blunt/insensitive) as it leaves this shy INFP feeling off balance around them. But after this initial hurdle we tend to get on remarkably well, having these fantastic celebral discussions. I do have to watch how idealistic and earnest I'm getting (or at least be prepared to endure a great deal of mocking ) but it is wonderful to indulge in the side of me that loves objectivity, theory and intellectualism. And NTs don't prod me about personal matters or go on about the trivial sorts of things others talk in circles over or mince their words and say nice things they don't mean (I love the dark and sardonic humour ), which I can find exhausting in others. It can be relaxing to step back from the stresses of life and talk about astrophysics with my INTJ friend, or critically dissect a film with my INTP friend, or play a sledging-filled game of scrabble with my ENTP friend.

 

[brainheart]

i noticed that, and yes its pretty annoying when people fail to read and then start to act like they got some sand in their vagina

Oh, I'm sorry. I just got sand in my vagina and that caused me to misunderstand your post. I think, as I said before, it had to do with the fact that I was the OP, it was about NF-NT vs NF-SP pairing, and then you started talking about how some NFs dig NTs because they provide balance, while other NFs desire clones who keep them in la-la land. This led me to conclude that you were saying that anything but an NT love interest for an NF is a clone of the NF. I'm pretty sure I read your post. But you know, when you have sand in your vagina, it makes it hard to understand things clearly. My apologies.

(Maybe you should read what I wrote. How, in any way, do I sound overly touchy or annoyed? I was just looking for clarification. People always talk about how sensitive NFs are, but I swear some INTPs are the most sensitive people in existence; their defense mechanism is to make other people look emotional, but it's totally them overreacting. But I digress... Although this ties in quite nicely with the thread, come to think of it...)

All right. I re-read your post for like the fiftieth time now and I think I know what's up. Your second 'etc' was to infer that other NFs like other things, not just clones. Now it makes sense.

 

[brainheart]

er well i hope you guys don't mind me butting in, but INTP and brainheart, there's this pattern that happens between me and my INTP dad sometimes...

> TP makes general statement
> FP applies statement to self, does not find true and/or pleasant
> FP gets annoyed at TP for statement
> TP gets annoyed at FP for misinterpretation

just... that kind of looks like what might have happened here too...

:blushing:

No offense, skylights, but I think you should re-read the whole interaction as well... I think INTPS are just as guilty of taking things personally.

 

[The_World_As_Will]

Oh, I'm sorry. I just got sand in my vagina and that caused me to misunderstand your post. I think, as I said before, it had to do with the fact that I was the OP, it was about NF-NT vs NF-SP pairing, and then you started talking about how some NFs dig NTs because they provide balance, while other NFs desire clones who keep them in la-la land. This led me to conclude that you were saying that anything but an NT love interest for an NF is a clone of the NF. I'm pretty sure I read your post. But you know, when you have sand in your vagina, it makes it hard to understand things clearly. My apologies.

(Maybe you should read what I wrote. How, in any way, do I sound overly touchy or annoyed? I was just looking for clarification. People always talk about how sensitive NFs are, but I swear some INTPs are the most sensitive people in existence; their defense mechanism is to make other people look emotional, but it's totally them overreacting. But I digress... Although this ties in quite nicely with the thread, come to think of it...)

I agree, I think INTPs can be quite sensitive/emotional, I certainly am, I also think it has to be taken into account the emotional/psychological healthy of anNT or an NF during interactions. I have extremely great interactions with INFPs, I guess because my Ti isn't as harsh, or i'm just psychologically healthy than other INTPs who are rather err ruthless when they try to act all logical :/ You stated earlier that you get on best with SPs, doesn't the lack of N get to y ou at times?. Personally, I have a lot of difficulty connecting with S types, way too much Ne for them to handle, and I love conversations which are free flowing and i can sort of bounce ideas back and forth, which I've had the pleasure to do with INFPs, even with emotional topics, I think that once INTPs understand Fi and how it's not so distinct from Ti, it's a lovely interaction.

 

[brainheart]

I agree, I think INTPs can be quite sensitive/emotional, I certainly am, I also think it has to be taken into account the emotional/psychological healthy of anNT or an NF during interactions. I have extremely great interactions with INFPs, I guess because my Ti isn't as harsh, or i'm just psychologically healthy than other INTPs who are rather err ruthless when they try to act all logical :/ You stated earlier that you get on best with SPs, doesn't the lack of N get to y ou at times?. Personally, I have a lot of difficulty connecting with S types, way too much Ne for them to handle, and I love conversations which are free flowing and i can sort of bounce ideas back and forth, which I've had the pleasure to do with INFPs, even with emotional topics, I think that once INTPs understand Fi and how it's not so distinct from Ti, it's a lovely interaction.

Hmm, well I'm friends with a wide variety. I'd say my closest friends tend to be NFs and NTs, but for romantic relationships, it seems to work best with an SP. I guess we don't talk quite as much as I do with my friends. It seems to be more about action. I think this is healthy for me because I think I have a tendency to become overly analytical and withdrawn. Being with someone who encourages physical activity and enjoying the world as is, encourages me to be more extroverted. Sure, sometimes it feels like something is lacking because we don't connect so much on the intuitive level, but there's always trade-offs. This connection with SPs, actually, makes me wonder if I'm an INFJ. We definitely connect on the Se. NPs seem to be the ones more concerned about this division.

And yes, you seem to be a very nice INTP.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I usually don't get along at all with NFPs, while I find NFJs usually quite sympathetic. The NFPs I got to know seem to have greater issues dealing with cynism, black humor, etc. Also, they often react as though I had personally attacked although I merely stated the - unpleasant - truth about another idealistic idea of them. Maybe this is just a problem of younger NFPs, or even just a problem of this small group I got to know. NFJs, on the other hand, seem to have a way more .... "realistic idealism", what makes them easier to discuss with.

But as said, this is more about my personal experience than by principle. In fact, I quite adore FiNe for it's constant upholding of their idealism against all the bad of the world. It's just that they don't seem to like me
Though I know one INFP I get along with and one ENFP. So, it IS possible.^^

 

[skylights]

No offense, skylights, but I think you should re-read the whole interaction as well... I think INTPS are just as guilty of taking things personally.

i've read it a few times over, did again. i felt the same as you did upon reading it initially and was surprised when INTP responded the way he did. then i realized the similarity of the pattern to my interactions with my dad, re-read INTP's post, and understood why this sequence occurred. i did not mean to assign any particular blame to you, just pointing out the pattern. i agree that INTPs can take things quite personally as well. i'm sorry if you felt like i was blaming you in particular, that wasn't my intention. all miscommunication require two people... easier to just blame neither... imo most miscommunications are simply a disconnect on two ends, one person who is not outputting exactly what they want to communicate and the other who is not correctly interpreting exactly what the first person is trying to communicate.

anyway, as far as i understand it, and you are welcome to tell me if you think i am wrong, what i see was a statement on INTP's end that utilized phrasing that could imply Feeling:

INTP (underlining mine): "some NFs prefer clones from themselves as mates who they can live in their own little la la land with etc etc."

all the underlined words, imo, have slightly derogatory undertones when read with Feeling instead of logically. what happens between myself and my dad is that i listen to his tone while he listens to my words, and vice versa, and we mess up that way. if we look closely, the idea that your SP husband is one of the "clones" is never actually stated by INTP, only misinterpreted by us (the same thought occurred to me) -- i suspect because we pick up on the Feeling tones in the statement, and as such, we introvert them -- we apply the statement to ourselves and others. and that's probably the point at which you noted that this statement does not in fact apply to you, because your SP husband is not a clone of you - in fact that's the whole premise behind the thread. hence your reaction. but if i read INTP's words just thinking of the meaning, and no personal implications, it comes out something like:

"some NFs prefer people very much like themselves as mates who they can live in their own private thinking-space with."

which doesn't have the same Feeling implications that made me perk a bit upon first read. it also doesn't contradict your statement about your SP husband. it's just a statement about some general NF tendencies, not laced with personal implications. and it's certainly an easily true statement, at that. some NFs like others like them.

The NFPs I got to know seem to have greater issues dealing with cynism, black humor, etc.

unfortunate. black humor is a fine pleasure of life.

 

[The_World_As_Will]

I usually don't get along at all with NFPs, while I find NFJs usually quite sympathetic. The NFPs I got to know seem to have greater issues dealing with cynism, black humor, etc. Also, they often react as though I had personally attacked although I merely stated the - unpleasant - truth about another idealistic idea of them. Maybe this is just a problem of younger NFPs, or even just a problem of this small group I got to know. NFJs, on the other hand, seem to have a way more .... "realistic idealism", what makes them easier to discuss with.

But as said, this is more about my personal experience than by principle. In fact, I quite adore FiNe for it's constant upholding of their idealism against all the bad of the world. It's just that they don't seem to like me
Though I know one INFP I get along with and one ENFP. So, it IS possible.^^

heh, I've noticed the COMPLETE opposite of that, NFJ's tend to be the one IME who get bitchy about black humour and taking it personally or thinking it's too mean etc, my INFP friends and I LOVE black humour, I agree with skylights, it is certainly one of the fine pleasures of life. Maybe you were dealing with very unhealthy NFPs? they tend to take on a J-ish stance, but your average INFP is totally awesome and mention any type of Dark humour, you'll get a chuckle out of them.

 

[OrangeAppled]

People always talk about how sensitive NFs are, but I swear some INTPs are the most sensitive people in existence; their defense mechanism is to make other people look emotional, but it's totally them overreacting

hahaha...so true!

The NFPs I got to know seem to have greater issues dealing with cynism, black humor, etc.

Interesting....I find NTPs misinterpret MY black humor, but I don't do the same to them. Related to the above quote, they try to project emotion on me when I was taking a mocking tone or an exaggeratedly morose tone merely for humorous effect. Even on this message board I've seen double standards for flippant tones in NTPs & NFPs.

Also, they often react as though I had personally attacked although I merely stated the - unpleasant - truth about another idealistic idea of them.

I wonder if this is the flipside of what I see as: "Telling me what I think & why without actually grasping what I think correctly & then continuing to insist you're right & its the 'truth' when I attempt to explain you have it all wrong." I mean, how could anyone possibly know what & how I think better than I do? And then to pass it off as ME being deluded?