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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    I was chatting with another member about Ni and how particularly Te/Ni-ers will consolidate all that Te/Ni has gone through, into one short sentence. When asked to explain, it's not that we can't but that we don't even think about doing so since it's potentially something that should be obvious. Not condescension but if you were to say the sky is blue, you wouldn't expect to have to explain why it's blue every time.
    Actually I argue its purple then explain how the light actually refacts because of the water that is present in the air giving it a blue color. If it really was blue, then why is it black at night time?

  2. #42
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Actually I argue its purple then explain how the light actually refacts because of the water that is present in the air giving it a blue color. If it really was blue, then why is it black at night time?
    Um, no.

    The sky, doesn't have a color, but the light scatters (not refracts) from the sun. The red light wavelength is longer than the size of the particles (not just water) in the atmosphere, and just passes through. The blue light wavelength is shorter, and thus is more likely to scatter. So light from the sun (at sunset, for example) gets split up, with red going straight through (making the sun look red), while the higher wavelengths scatter (dominated by blue). The scattered light is then REscattered, with that same split based on wavelength happening. This REscattered light is what we see as the color of the sky. It also happens to be polarized by the scattering, which is why polaroid sunglasses work well eliminating "glare" from the sky and from reflections of the sky (on a body of water or a window).
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  3. #43
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Yes.

    It is easy to forget that Ni is a perceiving function. Thus, when Ni is involved, that which is not obvious looks obvious. That's how it tends to flummox Ti (in INTPs for example), where the sounds as if the conclusion was stated without proof or foundation, and that the INTJ (for example) has to go and backtrack and prove that which the INTJ regards as obvious.
    STPs and NFJs use Ti-Ni/Ni-Ti without their heads exploding. I don't think Ni baffles Ti anymore than Fi baffles Ni.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Um, no.

    The sky, doesn't have a color, but the light scatters (not refracts) from the sun. The red light wavelength is longer than the size of the particles (not just water) in the atmosphere, and just passes through. The blue light wavelength is shorter, and thus is more likely to scatter. So light from the sun (at sunset, for example) gets split up, with red going straight through (making the sun look red), while the higher wavelengths scatter (dominated by blue). The scattered light is then REscattered, with that same split based on wavelength happening. This REscattered light is what we see as the color of the sky. It also happens to be polarized by the scattering, which is why polaroid sunglasses work well eliminating "glare" from the sky and from reflections of the sky (on a body of water or a window).
    Lol, I know the sky is not a color. I knew it wasnt refactoring or else it would be more rainbow not solid. Didnt know what exactly it was called as I hadnt actually looked it up.

    So why are sunsets/rises red?

    edit: nm I read something that said that the light passes through more of the atmosphere which explained why its red not blue. blue scatters to the point where more red passes through.

  5. #45
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    This is because Ni is consistently the most poorly defined process.
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  6. #46
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    In other words, "I know this is right. I don't know how I know this is right, and I can't explain it to you right now, but give me some time, and I'll see if I can come up with something that explains it to you the best I can."
    I can, and have done this, as a Si dom. Sometimes my recollection is instant, sometimes it takes hours/days/weeks to conjure up, and sometimes I don't ever make the connection.

    I too, prior to externally laying claim that what I am perceiving is the end all, be all, sometimes have to do more 'work' to be sure of it. So that part I don't think is exclusive to Ni.
    Like other's have said, I believe that if you know a person or have some understanding of the underlyings, or the Ni-er takes the time to explain it, that a non-Ni also can make the connection.

    I know this guy- a public speaker. When he speaks, people say he goes all over the place with his points, but when he brings it home, it all makes sense. He wraps it up neatly (well, sometimes). That's Ni. I love how he takes seemingly unrelated things and is able to make connections, or use them to support his conclusions. Sometimes as he's setting up his points, I'm able to make the connection before he actually says it. Not that I am using Ni, but at least my Si ability helps me to follow what he's saying and build right along with him, not look at him with the face.

    Si and Ni are explained in polar opposites- with Si being so simple and straightforward, and Ni being so complex. Neither is the case.

  7. #47
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Lol, I know the sky is not a color. I knew it wasnt refactoring or else it would be more rainbow not solid. Didnt know what exactly it was called as I hadnt actually looked it up.

    So why are sunsets/rises red?
    I'd already explained that, sort of. The light is passing through more atmosphere, and hence more particles. The red light will just pass through the particles. (Some red light scatters, too, if the particles are big enough - but that just means everything other than red is scattering even more.)

    The physics concept is easily analogized by imagining a small boat in the ocean. There are a lot of big waves (long wavelengths) in the ocean that just make the boat bob up and down. It doesn't move, and the waves just pass on by. The small waves will hit the boat and bounce off, because the waves are smaller than the size of the boat.

    There is a cool experiment you can do with a flashlight, a fish tank full of water, and some milk. Shine the light through the water of the fish tank (so that it passes through the most water). Gradually add in the milk, and stir the water so it is evenly distributed. As more milk is added, the beam of light in the water becomes more visible, initially with its typical yellow-white color. Then as even more milk is added, the beam starts turning red. The water around the beam (with lots of milk particles in it) starts turning blue. As you add more milk, the beam gets redder and the milk gets bluer. The blue part of the milk is analogous to the sky, while the red beam is analogous to why the sun looks red. And if you look at the flashlight from the far end of the tank, it looks like it's only emitting red light, even though it is surrounded by the glowing blue water of the tank.

    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The physics concept is easily analogized by imagining a small boat in the ocean. There are a lot of big waves (long wavelengths) in the ocean that just make the boat bob up and down. It doesn't move, and the waves just pass on by. The small waves will hit the boat and bounce off, because the waves are smaller than the size of the boat.

    There is a cool experiment you can do with a flashlight, a fish tank full of water, and some milk. Shine the light through the water of the fish tank (so that it passes through the most water). Gradually add in the milk, and stir the water so it is evenly distributed. As more milk is added, the beam of light in the water becomes more visible, initially with its typical yellow-white color. Then as even more milk is added, the beam starts turning red. The water around the beam (with lots of milk particles in it) starts turning blue. As you add more milk, the beam gets redder and the milk gets bluer. The blue part of the milk is analogous to the sky, while the red beam is analogous to why the sun looks red. And if you look at the flashlight from the far end of the tank, it looks like it's only emitting red light, even though it is surrounded by the glowing blue water of the tank.

    So what function is this? What function did you use to explain this and what function are you catering to?

  9. #49
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    So what function is this? What function did you use to explain this and what function are you catering to?
    Fi, obviously.

    Isn't the picture pretty?
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  10. #50
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I can, and have done this, as a Si dom. Sometimes my recollection is instant, sometimes it takes hours/days/weeks to conjure up, and sometimes I don't ever make the connection.

    I too, prior to externally laying claim that what I am perceiving is the end all, be all, sometimes have to do more 'work' to be sure of it. So that part I don't think is exclusive to Ni.
    Like other's have said, I believe that if you know a person or have some understanding of the underlyings, or the Ni-er takes the time to explain it, that a non-Ni also can make the connection.

    I know this guy- a public speaker. When he speaks, people say he goes all over the place with his points, but when he brings it home, it all makes sense. He wraps it up neatly (well, sometimes). That's Ni. I love how he takes seemingly unrelated things and is able to make connections, or use them to support his conclusions. Sometimes as he's setting up his points, I'm able to make the connection before he actually says it. Not that I am using Ni, but at least my Si ability helps me to follow what he's saying and build right along with him, not look at him with the face.

    Si and Ni are explained in polar opposites- with Si being so simple and straightforward, and Ni being so complex. Neither is the case.
    Perhaps, then, this is just the result of introverted judgment.

    So, if I get what U's saying correctly, a better way of describing Ni is to say "this is clearly, utterly correct. However, you're not seeing it this way, not because you're stupid, bad, or deficient in any way, but because you don't have either the same internal or external frame of reference for this to make sense to you. Here, let me illustrate/explain/show to you what exactly I mean, so you can understand where I'm coming from."

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