I think that most 'intuitives' are mistyped sensors, and the test needs redesigned.

[Oaky]

For instance this can be an S painting: (it has a ton of details)
While an N painting would have less details and be more ambiguous.

So the person who is tested would have to choose between the one with more details and which reflects something more accurately , and the one with less details that is more confusing perhaps.
But what would stop a sensor from choosing an ambiguous painting? It probably won't work.

It does not always mean such.

I would asssume Intuitives generally like more artwork that encourages ideas and perspectives. Not necessarily the abstract form of what art displays.
For example:

A detailed picture provoking our imaginational thoughts. Perhaps abstract demonstrations of reality.

Whereas something more 'down to earth' would provoke our thoughts on reality:

 

[Randomnity]

1st bold: If I may, I think I can explain this a little better. S vs N is considered by many people (self included) to be the most significant dynamic to MBTI because these are the information gathering functions. Ns and Ss collect completely different types of data and thus understand the world differently. when by themselves, an S asks "what" "who" "where" and "when". an N asks "how" and "why"

Thank you, this is the reasoning I was asking for. I disagree, but at least you have a rationale. (I disagree that information gathering is the most significant difference between people, partially because I think a more important thing is where you go with the information you have. You can reach the same destination from different origins. ) I understand you're exaggerating to make a point, but Ss also ask how and why. We just rely a little more on the facts to answer how and why.

3rd bold: it's not automatically clear, but it can happen EXTREMELY fast. older people frequently tell me I understand things about the world that took them 50 years to find out (I'm 19). it can also happen automatically, especially in N dominant people (ENPs and INJs)

Congratulations, you're clever (at least, at some things; or at least, people think you are, at some things; or at least, they want you to think that they think you are clever at some things). What makes you think Ss are immune to this phenomenon? It happens when you're reasonably intelligent.

As an S, I can tell you that I'm not below-average in my speed of grasping concepts.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I think a test with paintings to differentiate S/N preference would be more interesting...but the paintings would have to be equally beautiful...and that's kind of hard.
1.

2.

I agree that for the most part, when it comes to art you can note differences in N vs. S... but not always. The two images you posted could easily be N or S, though I lean more towards S for both. Your first image is rich in textures and colors, and is a bit impressionistic and therefore, I would think an extroverted sensor produced it.

For S paintings--I would lean towards realism and impressionism...
For N paintings--fantasy and surrealism...

But this was something I noted in what I painted or drew versus my INFP ex that was also an artist.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

For instance this can be an S painting: (it has a ton of details)
While an N painting would have less details and be more ambiguous.

So the person who is tested would have to choose between the one with more details and which reflects something more accurately , and the one with less details that is more confusing perhaps.
But what would stop a sensor from choosing an ambiguous painting? It probably won't work.

I would disagree with this notion as well. A high degree of detail or lack there of isn't really an indicator of S or N. However, on the point of an S creating a more ambiguous image, it could be a play on colors, textures, etc. I've created some ambiguous works of my own... sometimes to be light and impressionist, but to just sort of play around with my tools of the trade. I enjoy the focus, not only on the subject matter, but the focus on lines and fluidity, etc. These types of things will really catch my eye in paintings as well.

 

[entropie]

As an S, I can tell you that I'm not below-average in my speed of grasping concepts.

Showing off with speed is really not nice in the company of a blind man like me .

I agree with you, I think if you'ld boil down the whole N and S think it's very basically only a lot about perception, which is completly detached from reasonably intelligence. I once saw this diagram where dots were connected with each other and they said the S looks at the dots and the N looks at the connections. And that is reflected in my speaking best, I tend to talk about things leaving keypoints out. When I talk to my istp or isfj workmates they always will interrupt me and either ask me how I derived point A from point C or they will ask me, where the heck point B is. I tend to recognize intuitive types immdeinatly just via the way of communicating. It has all pros and cons, the s-way of communicating is very precise but slow and the N-way is fast and holistic but very imprecise and prone to mistakes or miscommunication.

People who make tho some mysterious jedi force out of N-types and even relate their way of perception to a superior intelligence will fail I am convinced

 

[Sunny Ghost]

^It certainly has details, but I don't know if that's necessarily intuitive.. Depends on the point being made

Here's a painting from a friend.. he's very detailed, but not like the above. I'm not sure what type he is sometimes..tbh. Just take the painting as is though. My point is that it's detailed, yet abstract. And if someone casually told me "Yeah, that's cool" and walked away, my own capacity for details would grab them by the neck and say "GRRR.. Look more."

Now that's a very N image.

 

[Randomnity]

I definitely like this one better, but mostly because the other one is incredibly boring.

 

[entropie]

I really had to learn to talk precisely, an engineering education helped with that.

Where I come from it's "precisly central", they all can go eff off with their constant need of correcting me. One day I'll plant a crap bomb here and rot this ugly country out from the face of the world

 

[Poki]

I definitely like this one better, but mostly because the other one is incredibly boring.

makes me want to toss a pebble into the picture and watch the mixture of circular water effects with the one shown. Followed by as big ass a boulder i can find and see how far I can throw it.

 

[Jaguar]

How would a painting be an S painting or an N painting?

My Mom was an artist, and she always painted realistic reflections of objects. (Se)
She was sensational at painting fruit and flowers. They were so realistic, it was stunning. She captured lighting and shadows to such a degree, you didn't think you were looking at a painting.

Also, here's a related article that I read a while back that helped me type myself as a sensor: "How to Tell INtuiting from Extraverted Sensing".

There's an old story behind that link.

Sim had insulted an ISTP who claimed to be "looking at the big picture." Sim thought it was funny, as if to suggest SPs couldn't possibly be "big picture" people. That's when I got annoyed with him, since I knew darn well what Linda Berens had written about SPs. That was the link I posted.

This is important:

Those with ISTP have introverted iNtuiting as tertiary (following Grant's model) and as adults, probably have had much opportunity to develop and use it. The functions do not operate in isolation, but in dynamic interaction. Could it be what looks like extraverted iNtuiting is really extraverted Sensing, with an introverted iNtuiting perception of the near future? Could this be the attraction to "big picture," "pattern" and "possibilities"?

Last year I was reading poki's posts and I kept picking up an Ni vibe from them. I think I even asked him, "Are you sure you're ISTP?" Well, shouldn't we be asking ourselves why people are making such a big deal in this forum about S and N when according to data I have seen, SPs are the most likely to think they're N? And why should that come as a shock, knowing full well we do not just develop the first two processes? It is very sloppy thinking, indeed, if people don't realize that everyone develops their processes at different rates of speed, and by claiming to prefer S doesn't mean you don't use intuition.

In addition, the biggest problem I see in this forum are people who are still attributing natural skill to the Dom function. Just because someone claims their Dom function is Ni or Ne, doesn't mean they are in any way gifted at "using" it. Frankly, they could be completely inept. So inept, they could actually use that as an excuse to think they're another type. I recall a member using that very line of reasoning for choosing ENFP over ENTP. I sat here thinking, "Did it ever occur to you you're really not an ENFP but an ENTP with poor Ti?"

All food for thought . . .

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Actually, the difference between Se and Si in paintings is interesting:



My Mom was an artist, and she always painted realistic reflections of objects. (Se)
She was sensational at painting fruit and flowers. They were so realistic, it was stunning. She captured lighting and shadows to such a degree, you didn't think you were looking at a painting.



There's an old story behind that link.

Sim had insulted an ISTP who claimed to be "looking at the big picture." Sim thought it was funny, as if to suggest SPs couldn't possibly be "big picture" people. That's when I got annoyed with him, since I knew darn well what Linda Berens had written about SPs. That was the link I posted.

This is important:



Last year I was reading poki's posts and I kept picking up an Ni vibe from them. I think I even asked him, "Are you sure you're ISTP?" Well, shouldn't we be asking ourselves why people are making such a big deal in this forum about S and N when according to data I have seen, SPs are the most likely to think they're N? And why should that come as a shock, knowing full well we do not just develop the first two processes? It is very sloppy thinking, indeed, if people don't realize that everyone develops their processes at different rates of speed, and by claiming to prefer S doesn't mean you don't use intuition.

In addition, the biggest problem I see in this forum are people who are still attributing natural skill to the Dom function. Just because someone claims their Dom function is Ni or Ne, doesn't mean they are in any way gifted at "using" it. Frankly, they could be completely inept. So inept, they could actually use that as an excuse to think they're another type. I recall a member using that very line of reasoning for choosing ENFP over ENTP. I sat here thinking, "Did it ever occur to you you're really not an ENFP but an ENTP with poor Ti?"

All food for thought . . .

Agreed... I think it's much more noticeable with F and T dominant types, that there can be some underdevelopment. For example, someone with a weak, but dominant Fi, (INFP, ISFP) can come off as not only insecure, but with loose morals and values... or an inconsistency of behavior... wrecklessness and moodiness. Such as an ISFP that's mean and spiteful, gets into fights easily, and easily influenced into bad behavior patterns.

I'd still argue that Se is capable of impressionist work as well... but the motivation behind it may be different. As I mentioned already, based more on a desire to play with lines, colors, textures, etc... as these are equally pleasing to our own Se.

 

[Randomnity]

In addition, the biggest problem I see in this forum are people who are still attributing natural skill to the Dom function. Just because someone claims their Dom function is Ni or Ne, doesn't mean they are in any way gifted at "using" it. Frankly, they could be completely inept. So inept, they could actually use that as an excuse to think they're another type.

This is worth quoting again for emphasis, since it seems to be a common mistake.

 

[Poki]

Last year I was reading poki's posts and I kept picking up an Ni vibe from them. I think I even asked him, "Are you sure you're ISTP?" Well, shouldn't we be asking ourselves why people are making such a big deal in this forum about S and N when according to data I have seen, SPs are the most likely to think they're N? And why should that come as a shock, knowing full well we do not just develop the first two processes? It is very sloppy thinking, indeed, if people don't realize that everyone develops their processes at different rates of speed, and by claiming to prefer S doesn't mean you don't use intuition.

My dad is Dom Ni and mom Dom Ne. My N is really strong as I have learned to relate and work with both of them very well.

I do prefer S for play and N for learning. Different then say an ENFP who uses N for play and S to learn.

 

[entropie]

It's a bit a matter of definition aswell with regards to how deep you want to go down the rabbit hole. That means instead of saying that an infp with weak morales has a semi-developed Fi of exactly .59 points and his Se is taking over the control and made Ne his bitch, you could say aswell that mbti just has its limits.

If you start to dig deep into the complex system that is the human psyche and take into consideration all the experiences and mental illnesses and so on of only one person, you'll just automatically think at some point that in comparison mbti is something quite superficial.

 

[guesswho]

If you start to dig deep into the complex system that is the human psyche and take into consideration all the experiences and mental illnesses and so on of only one person, you'll just automatically think at some point that in comparison mbti is something quite superficial.

Every person experiences an unique string of events throughout their lives, and if we take in consideration that what we experience in life alters our personality, then personality is pretty much unique in everyone. Even though there are patterns that are some sort of a common ground of specific types of personality, the individual is unique.


But obviously everybody already knew that

 

[IZthe411]

1st bold: If I may, I think I can explain this a little better. S vs N is considered by many people (self included) to be the most significant dynamic to MBTI because these are the information gathering functions. Ns and Ss collect completely different types of data and thus understand the world differently. when by themselves, an S asks "what" "who" "where" and "when". an N asks "how" and "why"
2nd bold: agreed, that is a horrible analogy. if anything, Sensors have an edge on Intuitive types, most of the best gamers I've met have been ISTPs
3rd bold: it's not automatically clear, but it can happen EXTREMELY fast. older people frequently tell me I understand things about the world that took them 50 years to find out (I'm 19). it can also happen automatically, especially in N dominant people (ENPs and INJs)

Elfy, you are usually on point, but not on one point. The information gathered is the same. What's done with it is different. Both analyze it, but the analysis is different .

An S (and I would hope an N) asks all 5 of the questions.

 

[KDude]

On a sidenote, I find it funny that Holmes is always the guy who advises Watson to build a case, and work from the details. He shuns the "big picture" theorizing a bit.. even though Holmes is often typed INTP and Watson ISFJ.

 

[IZthe411]

That's my Dad. You should have seen what happened when he saw me throw a penny in the trash.
:horor:

That's that OLD OLD school mentality. LOL. They will brake for a nickel sitting in the street.

When I clean off my dresser, sometimes I get so tired of picking the change I just sweep it all in the trash.

 

[Orangey]

In addition, the biggest problem I see in this forum are people who are still attributing natural skill to the Dom function. Just because someone claims their Dom function is Ni or Ne, doesn't mean they are in any way gifted at "using" it. Frankly, they could be completely inept. So inept, they could actually use that as an excuse to think they're another type. I recall a member using that very line of reasoning for choosing ENFP over ENTP. I sat here thinking, "Did it ever occur to you you're really not an ENFP but an ENTP with poor Ti?"

What travesty is this? If we accept that what you say is true, then how can we continue using our type codes as proof of our superior intelligence/empathy/creativity/industry?

 

[Jaguar]

Every person experiences an unique string of events throughout their lives, and if we take in consideration that what we experience in life alters our personality, then personality is pretty much unique in everyone. Even though there are patterns that are some sort of a common ground of specific types of personality, the individual is unique.


But obviously everybody already knew that

Not in this forum. That's for sure.

That's that OLD OLD school mentality. LOL. They will brake for a nickel sitting in the street.

My Dad is OLD OLD school, my friend! Lol.

What travesty is this? If we accept that what you say is true, then how can we continue using our type codes as proof of our superior intelligence/empathy/creativity/industry?

Oooh, Zing!

I'd still argue that Se is capable of impressionist work as well... but the motivation behind it may be different. As I mentioned already, based more on a desire to play with lines, colors, textures, etc... as these are equally pleasing to our own Se.

I decided to yank the art quote out of my post since I'd never want to suggest to anyone, "You can't do X."