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  1. #21
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Are you an INJ? Did you have trouble initially deciding whether you're an NT or an NF, despite the fact that the two are completely different temperaments?

    If you're an INJ who totally resonates with their temperament, or someone who believes that individual letter preference strength is independent of type, then this will probably seem ridiculous to you.

    Have you ever wondered why everyone else swears by temperament theory, and think it adequately explains things, while to you it seems kind of like an arbitrary boundary between things that don't seem mutually exclusive?
    I think temperament theory is a good starting point when first introduced to MBTI. A helpful way to group and understand initially. For some, this is good enough information for them, and they are done with MBTI. For those that are more serious about studying the MBTI, however, I think as you observe and read more that everyone reaches a point where they realize temperament theory isn't fully explanatory or developed. Merely, the starting point for basic understanding. I'm pretty sure for anyone who's been studying it for several months or years, that eventually they come to put more effort in understanding the individual functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Yes, of course. That's the other thing... sometimes the tertiary function is heavily developed. So a heavily introverted INFJ can be very Ni-Ti, and a heavily introverted INTJ can be very Ni-Fi. That's when they get mistaken for other types, sometimes even by themselves. I've also had a lot of INTJs suggest I was an INTJ, and a lot of INTPs suggest I was an INTP... at various times. Although, that's probably because I'm deliberately curbing emotional response in interaction with them, which is ironically a very Fe thing to do.

    Now of course, the difference between the two types is STILL obvious to anyone who knows that INTJs use Fi/Te, and INFJs use Ti/Fe. But someone using temperament theory could easily misinterpret an INFJs Ni-Ti for being an NT, or an INTJs Ni-Fi for being an NF. I've seen it happen. Basically, I'm arguing that temperament theory is generally less useful compared to looking at functions, because it often leads people to incorrect conclusions.
    I have two friends that I sometimes debate as to whether or not they are INFJ or INTJ. I lean more towards INFJ on both... but I could very well be wrong. With the female, she can indeed be very emotional in an Fi sort of way... crazy outbursts. But she's had a lot of really tough things happen in her life. However, I do feel a lot of Fe too.

    With the male INFJ... I wonder if he's been mistyped. But... he sort of exemplifies split personality qualities and it's really difficult to tell. Ni-dom, for sure. But as to Te/Fi or Fe/Ti... it's almost as if he jumps between the two. He's bisexual and has gender issues. If he's hanging out with me or other females, he's more Fe/Ti. But when with the males he's more Te/Fi it seems, from my understanding of it. It's hard to distinguish if and which of these qualities are true behavior or mimicked behavior. They could all very well be insecure Fe.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Cybin's Avatar
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    All types are mix-and-match from two types of perceiving and judging expressed in one of two ways (alternating e/i). When you group them together, they are going to be similar in some ways and different in others. How you divide just depends on what traits you want to emphasize. This thread is essentially "Cakes, cookies, and brownies are all sweets, but it's hard to include brownies because they are chocolate."

    I'm a fan of EJ EP IJ IP divisions. I think there's a great amount of similarity in the dominant function directed the same way.

    I dislike the temperament theory mostly because I think behavior isn't the best thing to type by without context of how the decision for that behavior was made.

  3. #23
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Are you an INJ? Did you have trouble initially deciding whether you're an NT or an NF, despite the fact that the two are completely different temperaments?
    lol, no
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  4. #24
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    lol, no
    No, you're not an INJ? Or no, you didn't have trouble deciding?

    I would think you meant both, but I just wanted to be sure.

  5. #25
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    ^Agree.

    I'm INFJ and I don't identify strongly with the reputation for effusiveness or demonstrable vulnerability that those with the feeling preference often have. I'm an intuitive first and foremost and that colors everything. I suspect it is the same for other INFJs. I can easily see the feeling preference at work in terms of caring for others but it is much less observable in caring for ourselves or expressing intense emotion. I won't do that unless I'm very comfortable and only if I feel like entering that state. That seems to be the root of the feeling of F/T hybridization for me.

    I had a lot of trouble folk-typing an INTJ I know. I wondered if he was an armored INFP for the longest time because his emotions would sometimes unexpectedly surface and they were most definitely of a Fi variety. He and I have an uncanny amount in common in terms of the way we view the world, though he has a harder edge in general and I am more empathetic. He is very compassionate if he has experienced a situation personally and cares a lot about the few people very close to him. Everyone else is outside the bounds of caring and his feelings. In contrast, though we appear very similar to others on the surface (people have remarked about our similarities), I am empathetic in general until someone does something I really don't like. I also relate to your tendency to laugh at jokes that others find distasteful but feel terrible afterward if somebody else was hurt or offended.

    I have trouble dealing with strong emotions from others, which tends to make me shrink from the company of those who express difficult emotions in an unrestrained way. (This includes some Ts, whose dominant energy is aggression/anger/dissatisfaction). It makes me feel run over and then angry if I can't get away. My INTJ friend similarly shrinks from those kinds of people, though I'm not certain as to the exact motivation.
    I relate to most of this!! (also w/ regards to the intj that I know and how we compare/contrast to one another)

    To the OP - when I first discovered mbti in my early 20's, I always tested INTJ and also totally related to its profile. I didn't think I could possibly be an F, and didn't relate to the people-oriented/focused, and almost saintlike descriptions of NF profiles. By mid to late 20's after a lot of self exploration I concluded I was probably an INFJ. I still don't think I'm an archetypal one - as per profile descriptions, at least. Also temperamentally I really think I straddle both NT and NF. I know I'm pretty introverted and I know I'm not terribly 'F' on the sliding scale of F-T. I am also enneagram 5sp, though, which is a big factor in this too.

    As for functions? Fe vs Te? I don't know. Comparing myself to the definite real-life NTJ's that I know, I don't prefer Te. That said, when I am around definite NFJ's irl, my Fe is pretty lowkey compared to them. lol. And, in the work environment, I think I really excel at Te-type efficiency and optimization, and that comes naturally to me and isn't a struggle, and I don't really have any problems with the NTJ work style and can meld with it pretty well. But my overall aura / way I present myself is more INFJ-y I suppose.
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  6. #26
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    No, you're not an INJ? Or no, you didn't have trouble deciding?

    I would think you meant both, but I just wanted to be sure.
    My type is under my avatar, and no I never had a problem deciding. In fact, I called my type before I took the test, then the test confirmed it.

    Also, I've noticed that depressed Fs tend to think they are T and depressed Ts tend to think they are F.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  7. #27
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    My type is under my avatar, and no I never had a problem deciding. In fact, I called my type before I took the test, then the test confirmed it.
    Okay, then. That makes sense. Only an INTJ would be able to call their type before taking the test, and get it right.
    Also, I've noticed that depressed Fs tend to think they are T and depressed Ts tend to think they are F.
    That's very true... the INTJs I know who thought they were F were depressed at the time. I've also observed the phenomenon with other types.

  8. #28
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybin
    I'm a fan of EJ EP IJ IP divisions. I think there's a great amount of similarity in the dominant function directed the same way.
    this is true

  9. #29
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    That's very true... the INTJs I know who thought they were F were depressed at the time. I've also observed the phenomenon with other types.
    Yeah, TypoC is full of those people.
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  10. #30
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    So it's more like
    INFJs -> most similar to NTs
    INTJ -> most similar to NFs
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Yes, that's what I mean. I have met some INTJs who mistook themselves for NFs in general, but they tended to use Fi where INFJs use Fe, so you could still tell them apart. They were more likely to relate to INFPs than INFJs.

    Although, INTJs and INFJs still have more in common with each other than with most other types. The biggest similarity is that they can feel like they're not NT enough due to idealizing their own ideas and strong passion, and we can feel like we're not NF enough due to a need for practical goals, order, and obsessive analysis.
    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    my thoughts too.

    there's a guy in one of my classes i thought was an INTJ at first, but he gave a presentation today, and the Ti was so obvious. definitely INFJ.

    to be honest i don't think i've ever mistaken an INTJ for an INFJ, only the other way around. i think it's true that their "affect" is similar. i had sort of the same thing happen as violaine did, though - wondered if an INTJ was an especially armored INFP due to the occasional bouts of Fi. but that was before i really understood the functions, so i was just all confused that someone who i thought was T was being so F-y.

    i disagree about INFP and INTP being obvious, though. while INTPs are usually hard to mistake for INFPs, INFPs can be mistaken for INTPs (and mistake themselves for INTPs) especially if they are enneagram 5s.
    From what I have seen, INTJ's don't seem like NF's at all, but rather the perennial textbook NT; while ISTJ's; especially women, do often seem like some sort of SF's, and sometimes even NF's.
    I guess the INTJ might be wearing more of a mask, and internally feel like an NF, if, as stated, he doesn't feel he's living up to the whole image.

    On the other hand, INTP's, while also seeming to have the same issue of living up to NT, seem be the ones more like NF, and often struggling between the two, because of the Interaction Style (INP, with the P being a bit softer, like F).
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