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  1. #61
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I think that all of this self-glorifying "I hate small talk" business is silly and missing the point. If you claim to hate small talk it's either because (1) you dislike (or don't want to be bothered with) communicating with others in general, (2) you are socially dysfunctional and want to blame it on other's lack of ability to converse about "deeper" things, or (3) because you're lying to make yourself seem N to idiots on this forum. Of these three possibilities, I think that only (1) can have any sort of correlation to personality type. And it would be on the E/I or, to a lesser extent, T/F axis rather than S/N.

    Small talk is a social ritual that functions as a method of negotiating relationships between people in communication. Among other things, it allows, for instance, one to gauge the mood and willingness of their interlocutor in order to determine the limits of possible conversation. In other words, the point of small talk is not to exchange content through communication, but rather to understand how to communicate in any particular instance (with any particular person.) Function over content. To say that small talk is pointless because you talk about mundane things is, therefore, nothing other than a triviality.

    Personally, I do generally dislike engaging in small talk. But the reason that I do is because I dislike communicating in general with people to whom I am not well acquainted (i.e., people who I would have to engage in small talk with in order to communicate, because I don't know them well and therefore don't know how to communicate with them), not because the topics are boring. To say the latter would be akin to saying that I dislike candy wrappers because they don't taste as good the candy bar. Which is stupid.

    Furthermore, to say that you are bad at small talk is the same as saying that you are bad at being social.
    I tend to use small talk as a means to end and tend to dislike it for a number of reasons
    1) as you stated in bold, small talk is a social ritual and i dislike being bound social conventions, even if I can see the validity in them. i suppose it's similar to how Ss can see the validity in logic and theory, but they don't like to use more than they need (I'm making a rather sweeping generalization here, please correct me if you disagree)
    2) being N obviously I would rather talk about the secrets of the universe than the weather or obvious detail oriented conversations
    3) I'm an E4 which so I can't stand anything that is conventional or normal
    4) I'll admit, I am kind of a snob. I don't exclude people for things like race, appearence or religion, but I do exclude other people who are of low intelligence, weak mental fortitude or lack integrity. oh, and people who are people pleasers (people pleasing is SO pathetic)
    5) similarly, I am a very self centered person and if someone can't benefit me in any way, I'd rather not waste time with them (not very F of me is it lol)

  2. #62
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I tend to use small talk as a means to end and tend to dislike it for a number of reasons
    1) as you stated in bold, small talk is a social ritual and i dislike being bound social conventions, even if I can see the validity in them. i suppose it's similar to how Ss can see the validity in logic and theory, but they don't like to use more than they need (I'm making a rather sweeping generalization here, please correct me if you disagree)
    2) being N obviously I would rather talk about the secrets of the universe than the weather or obvious detail oriented conversations
    3) I'm an E4 which so I can't stand anything that is conventional or normal
    4) I'll admit, I am kind of a snob. I don't exclude people for things like race, appearence or religion, but I do exclude other people who are of low intelligence, weak mental fortitude or lack integrity. oh, and people who are people pleasers (people pleasing is SO pathetic)
    5) similarly, I am a very self centered person and if someone can't benefit me in any way, I'd rather not waste time with them (not very F of me is it lol)
    I think the point trying to be made here is that small talk is precisely a means to an end. I don't know that anyone truly loves making small talk. It can be fun to make jokes with people and be charming in that sort of manner when first engaging with people. But small talk is initially a way of... well... either being charismatic, such as hoping to uplift a random strangers mood, or making long silences amongst strangers less so and hopefully more interesting (like waiting in a line or something at a coffee shop, etc.), or hoping to get to know someone better by first initiating in light hearted conversation and seeing where it may lead--maybe somewhere deeper, maybe nowhere... but you can't know until you start somewhere.

    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  3. #63
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    You watched waking life?

    What an awesome surreal movie that was....

  4. #64
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    one of my favorites.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  5. #65
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    1) as you stated in bold, small talk is a social ritual and i dislike being bound social conventions, even if I can see the validity in them. i suppose it's similar to how Ss can see the validity in logic and theory, but they don't like to use more than they need (I'm making a rather sweeping generalization here, please correct me if you disagree)
    God, you know, I knew that if I used the phrase "social ritual" some idiot would take it out of the context of the sentence and be all "I hate social rituals 'cause I'm a non-conformist." Congratulations for meeting my expectations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    2) being N obviously I would rather talk about the secrets of the universe than the weather or obvious detail oriented conversations
    You've obviously failed to comprehend what I wrote. Also, "secrets of the universe?" You've also just given me second-hand embarrassment.

    I digress from the main topic here, but where are you guys getting this idea that "detail-oriented" is synonymous with "mundane" or "trivial?" A conversation about, say, global eco-politics (which some of you goons would like to claim as an N topic) could include more or less detail, but if it included more detail, why would it suddenly become a mundane thing to talk about? Being detailed describes a way in which to talk about something; being mundane describes a subject matter. Two different meanings.

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    I think the point trying to be made here is that small talk is precisely a means to an end. I don't know that anyone truly loves making small talk. It can be fun to make jokes with people and be charming in that sort of manner when first engaging with people. But small talk is initially a way of... well... either being charismatic, such as hoping to uplift a random strangers mood, or making long silences amongst strangers less so and hopefully more interesting (like waiting in a line or something at a coffee shop, etc.), or hoping to get to know someone better by first initiating in light hearted conversation and seeing where it may lead--maybe somewhere deeper, maybe nowhere... but you can't know until you start somewhere.
    Yes.
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  6. #66
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    God, you know, I knew that if I used the phrase "social ritual" some idiot would take it out of the context of the sentence and be all "I hate social rituals 'cause I'm a non-conformist." Congratulations for meeting my expectations.



    You've obviously failed to comprehend what I wrote. Also, "secrets of the universe?" You've also just given me second-hand embarrassment.

    I digress from the main topic here, but where are you guys getting this idea that "detail-oriented" is synonymous with "mundane" or "trivial?" A conversation about, say, global eco-politics (which some of you goons would like to claim as an N topic) could include more or less detail, but if it included more detail, why would it suddenly become a mundane thing to talk about? Being detailed describes a way in which to talk about something; being mundane describes a subject matter. Two different meanings.



    Yes.
    I understood your point perfectly, I actually agreed with most of it. it's just that it was more complicated than you mentioned so I elaborated.

  7. #67
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    I think the point trying to be made here is that small talk is precisely a means to an end. I don't know that anyone truly loves making small talk. It can be fun to make jokes with people and be charming in that sort of manner when first engaging with people. But small talk is initially a way of... well... either being charismatic, such as hoping to uplift a random strangers mood, or making long silences amongst strangers less so and hopefully more interesting (like waiting in a line or something at a coffee shop, etc.), or hoping to get to know someone better by first initiating in light hearted conversation and seeing where it may lead--maybe somewhere deeper, maybe nowhere... but you can't know until you start somewhere.
    This is a really good description!
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  8. #68
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    I think the point trying to be made here is that small talk is precisely a means to an end. I don't know that anyone truly loves making small talk. It can be fun to make jokes with people and be charming in that sort of manner when first engaging with people. But small talk is initially a way of... well... either being charismatic, such as hoping to uplift a random strangers mood, or making long silences amongst strangers less so and hopefully more interesting (like waiting in a line or something at a coffee shop, etc.), or hoping to get to know someone better by first initiating in light hearted conversation and seeing where it may lead--maybe somewhere deeper, maybe nowhere... but you can't know until you start somewhere.
    Indeed, but I like to exchange means and end. Doing smalltalk to... get to what? What gets most on my nerves is the doing smalltalk for socializing purposes. Socializing in order to socialize? Can't we play a game in order to socialize? Or discuss about literature to socialize? Why can't we eat from the two walls, "enjoy the company of friends" and "enjoy the interesting conversation / the board game / ..." at the same time? I've experienced more than one time that people are amusing themselves more (and it's not only me who does it) when there's something to do besides "being together". Yes, I'm keeping the "silly games for eight persons or more" both on the shelf and in my mind for the party I'm organising next week.
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  9. #69
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^^ yeahh i tend to like to socialize doing something, too. just talking, with someone you don't really know, is a little awkward! i like doing side-by-side activities, like painting or something to get to know someone. then you can bond over whatever you're doing instead of trying to focus so hard on the bonding itself that it becomes awkward


    but i think small talk is like a touch-and-go game of sorts, so you can feel out each others' interests first and not step on one anothers' toes. mini-socializing in order to get a feel on how to properly socialize with that person. like a bike with training wheels, even though you look a little silly

  10. #70
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    Indeed, but I like to exchange means and end. Doing smalltalk to... get to what? What gets most on my nerves is the doing smalltalk for socializing purposes. Socializing in order to socialize? Can't we play a game in order to socialize? Or discuss about literature to socialize? Why can't we eat from the two walls, "enjoy the company of friends" and "enjoy the interesting conversation / the board game / ..." at the same time? I've experienced more than one time that people are amusing themselves more (and it's not only me who does it) when there's something to do besides "being together". Yes, I'm keeping the "silly games for eight persons or more" both on the shelf and in my mind for the party I'm organising next week.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

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