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  1. #1
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default FIRO-B & MBTI in conjunction

    The Firo-B (Fundamental Interpersonal Relations Orientation -- Behavior) test is another measurement tool often used to add more specification to the standard MBTI.

    Firo-B has been around since the late 1950's and assumes that individuals are motivated by three interpersonal needs: Inclusion (I), Control (C), and Affection (A). Each of these needs can also be separated into Expressed needs (i.e., how much the individual is likely to express the trait) versus Wanted (i.e., how likely the individual is to want others to express the trait towards them).

    The six traits can be described as follows:


    • Expressed Inclusion (eI); I make an effort to include others in my activities, to belong, to join social groups, and to be with others as much as possible.
    • Wanted Inclusion (wI): I want others to include me in their activities, to invite me to belong, and to notice me.
    • Expressed Control (eC): I make an effort to exert control and influence and to organize and direct others.
    • Wanted Control (wC): I want others to provide well-defined work situations and clear expectations and instructions.
    • Expressed Affection (eA): I make an effort to get close to people, to express personal feelings, and to be supportive of others.
    • Wanted Affection (wA): I want others to act warmly toward me, to share their feelings, and to encourage my efforts.


    Taken from Schnell, Eugene R., and Hammer, Allen L., "Integrating the FIRO-B with the MBTI" in "Developing Leaders" eds Catherine Fitzgerald and Linda Kirby, Davies Black Publishing: Palo Alto, CA, 1997, p.440.
    An interesting 1994 study explored linkage between Firo-B and MBTI. One sample included 14000 managers participating in a leadership dev program over 11 years, while the other involved a sample of 386 managers who participated at another program. Cross-section demographics tended to show white males, young/mid-40's, college, educated, drawn from middle/upper ranks of their organizations. Most common types were ISTJ, ESTJ, and ENTJ.

    • Extroversion was related to higher scores on all Firo-B dimensions except Wanted Control.
    • Feeling was positively related to high scores on both dimensions of Affection.
    • IxTx had lowest levels of both Affection dimensions.
    • Judging was NOT shown to be significantly related to Expressed Control.
    • Expressed Control was determined to be related to ExTx.
    • Thinking had the highest need for Expressed Control.
    • Sensing was not related to Wanted Control.
    • Feeling was significantly associated with Wanted Control.
    • Highest levels of Wanted Control associated with ISFx types; lowest levels, with all NT and ST combinations.
    • xNxP was significantly associated with Wanted Inclusion.
    • Wanted Affection was the first or second highest interpersonal need for all 16 types.


    Finally a summary of the highest one or two FIRO-B cell scores for each MBTI type:

    • xNTx: (1) Expressed Control, (2) Wanted Affection
    • IxFx: (1) Wanted Affection
    • ExFx: (1) Wanted Affection, (2) Expressed Inclusion
    • ISTx, ESTP: (1) Expressed Control, (2) Wanted Affection
    • ESTJ: (1) Wanted Affection, (2) Expressed Control


    Sorry if the middle part (conclusions) feels a little jumbled, I'm trying to condense an entire paper into one small post.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #2
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Actually, the MBTI Manual has a number of studies with correlations between several Types and FIRO-B.

    I'll see what I can do about transcribing some of the information, for comparison.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
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  3. #3
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    Is this a test which can be taken online sans fee?
    Let's do this thing.

  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    Is this a test which can be taken online sans fee?
    I don't know. I'm keeping my eyes out for one, but once we get into the MBTI Step II and the Firo-B (and some others), they seem to not be popularized enough to be free online yet.

    I've seen sites that sell the forms and scoring books, for professional test-givers. (So at least they're available, but unfortunately for a price.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    Is this a test which can be taken online sans fee?
    I've never seen one.

    My opinion, increasingly, is that all free online MBTI-type tests should be eradicated.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  6. #6
    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    Why? Even in a controlled setting, they're not all that consistant.
    Let's do this thing.

  7. #7
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't know. I'm keeping my eyes out for one, but once we get into the MBTI Step II and the Firo-B (and some others), they seem to not be popularized enough to be free online yet.

    I've seen sites that sell the forms and scoring books, for professional test-givers. (So at least they're available, but unfortunately for a price.)
    A lot of these are considered professional tests which require a tester to some degree. There is also a lot of movement to keep specifics out of the hands of the public since widespread knowledge of the tests tends to give bias to the studies. I find these to be rationalisations, seeing as FIRO and MBTI are owned by the same group (CPP). A lot of the reasons for these... uhh... less scientific models has to do with commercialisation. It plays a significant part in the similar controls on each of them.

  8. #8
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    Why? Even in a controlled setting, they're not all that consistant.
    No, that's not true. The new Form M has a reliability in the 90%. Form G was in the mid-upper 80%. I have copies of Form M and from what I can tell, most of the online free tests are based off the older test. (edit: Yes, I did say F, I meant G.)

    I see several problems with the free online tests.

    The terminology is misleadingly simplistic. When Jung speaks of Sensing, iNtuiting, Thinking, and Feeling, he is using special terminology. Because the words seem familiar, people think they understand them intuitively (no pun intended). Look around, and you'll see a constant furor over what these "simple" words mean. People engaged on these sites are by far much better informed than most of the population--I've been to class, I can speak from experience! Imagine what a truly lay individual comes away with from an online Type "test."

    People don't understand the "scores." Scores simply talk about the ability of the instrument to sort your preferences. High scores don't say a thing about competency. If I have a high score on Thinking, does that mean I'm any good at it? No, not at all. Nor does that mean that I am out of touch from my feelings. Again, look around you. You'll see this fallacy repeated over & over.

    Type is not Trait. This concept covers a number of ills.

    MBTI is a psychological tool, just as are FIRO-B, Millon, CPI, etc. Purchase, administration, and interpretation of the instrument is restricted to people who have taken classes in psychometrics or who have attended a qualifying class. Part of this is because the language is specialized. Part of it is understanding the ethical implications of the tools and results.

    Would you believe an IQ test you took for free from OKCupid? Should you use those scores to choose a career? Probably not. Who created the test? Where's the research behind free tests? I know the research behind MBTI--yeah, it has problems; no, it's not perfect. But MBTI practitioners will admit that there are weaknesses and strengths. It's in our best interest to do so.

    The MBTI, being a sorting tool, faces some interesting challenges. It is not based on a norm. The midline is a dividing line between two very different things. Each side of the distribution plots are very different--not the standard bell-curve you'd expect from a norm.

    For example. I'm looking at a distribution plot of "Reported books read per year as a function of Sensing and iNtuition preference scores." The left side of the midline, the Sensing side, hovers around 5. The right side of the midline, the iNtuiting side, arcs from 30 to 35 to 40. If the tool lacked validity, you would not see this split.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  9. #9
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    A lot of these are considered professional tests which require a tester to some degree. There is also a lot of movement to keep specifics out of the hands of the public since widespread knowledge of the tests tends to give bias to the studies. I find these to be rationalisations, seeing as FIRO and MBTI are owned by the same group (CPP). A lot of the reasons for these... uhh... less scientific models has to do with commercialisation. It plays a significant part in the similar controls on each of them.
    I agree with the bias from familiarity. I've seen that in myself.

    But I don't think that simple greed is behind keeping the tools under some form of control.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  10. #10
    perdu fleur par bologne Martoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    No, that's not true. The new Form M has a reliability in the 90%. Form G was in the mid-upper 80%.
    How do they determine the reliability? I'm not familiar with how these metrics work.
    People engaged on these sites are by far much better informed than most of the population
    Mommy, she's scaring me!
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