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"Tertiary Rising" inversed: Type as a child

Llewellyn

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"Tertiary Rising" inverted: Type as a child

I have this theory:
- As a child the tertiary is second, the dominant is inverted (e -> i or i -> e).
- The secondary is provided for by the parents, in a way. (Secondary: 'The good parent')

I base this on three observations that people with the following types think they were / used to type themselves (in early youth) as:

for clarification, order below is: type now -> past/retrospected type
ISTJ -> ESFP (forum member -> seen in retrospect)
INFJ -> ENTP (friend -> getting it from MBTI at the time)
INTJ -> ENFP (me -> seen in retrospect)

All three have the pattern:
- the tertiary is secondary (retaining the same orientation)
- the dominant is dominant but has inverted orientation (e/i) - It might be that somehow the situation as a child is conducive to expression of the dominant in its inverted orientation.

I would conceive of a more extreme "child type" as having the tertiary dominating and its orientation inversed (which would yield ENFJ for an INTJ for example).

For the rest it's based on individual recognitions with people, like for example seeing in an ENFJ's movements and posture behaviour I remember from myself from a long time ago.

For the rest, too, it's pretty free theorizing. As I saw the Tertiary Rising thread I thought I would refer to it in my thread title, as that thread is proposing something similar but the other way around (and probably with a little more practical value, or at least future-oriented).
 
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ReflecTcelfeR

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I see that within myself. When I was child, or younger, before puberty I was extremely INFJ-ish. Now it would seem that the tertiary is finding its place and rearranging towards the third seat where it belongs, and my Ni-ish tendency is now affirming itself towards the outside world, making it Extraverted. I am now embracing a more ENTP-ish attitude.

So this theory explains my situation at the least.
 

Sunny Ghost

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somewhat fits a friend of mine... he believed he was more of an INTJ when he was younger and matured into an ENFP. :shrug:

ISFP has always been fitting to me though... however, if it's of any relevance, I believe i leaned more on Fi and Ni than Se, as a child and as an adult.
 

Totenkindly

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I think it has value only if the dominant maintains its normal direction. I haven't really seen the dominant be inverted whatsoever, it's typically whatever it is. (And for me, anecdotally, Te has always been one of my suckiest traits from birth and Ti one of my strongest.)

I could intuit that the tertiary would get mileage from being the function aimed in the same direction as the dom. That's why it would have an opportunity to be stronger. The secondary is always a stretch for the person, it's them moving into a new directional sphere (I->E or E->I), and the temptation is to play to the tertiary instead and use it to protect the primary so it won't have to be stretched. So the tert might start out more used, but the secondary should typically surpass it at some point, knocking it into third slot.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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I think it also may be determined by which third spot function is trying to protect the lead. Fe seems to cap Ne well enough as a child. So perhaps it isn't so much a directional change in function, but more of a release of the dominant allowing it to flow free, which would then allow the auxillary to surpass it as well. As we grow up critical thought surpasses the need to be protected at times. Thoughts?
 

lunalum

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Nah, there's no way I was an ESTJ when I was little =P
I was very strongly IxxP. Perhaps my Si was more prominent as a kid, so there may be something to the tertiary being secondary, or maybe tied with the secondary.... but my Te was pretty much unused at that time, I didn't start developing it until I was a teenager.
 

Thalassa

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Um so I was an INTJ as a child?

I am very puzzled by your theory.
 

Rail Tracer

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Can't really see myself as an ENFJ child. In retrospect, I always thought of myself as something resembling an ENFP/ISFP combo.
 

Eric B

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If this is true, nobody really was a different type. You still preferred the dom. and aux., but the ego ran to the tertairy to maintain its dominant orientation, and this may have affected behavior, but did not make you squarely another type.
If you look at function and orientation separately, then you can see why functions might appear to change attitude like that at times.
 

Llewellyn

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Um so I was an INTJ as a child?

I am very puzzled by your theory.

Not that you were one, just that you might've been expressing your dominant Ne (relatively) more as Ni (= introvertedly). No idea, it could perhaps be that the dominant is more evenly balanced (apparently, as probably typologically not immediately possible) at first, then later takes off fully in its own direction or orientation.
It might be that actually the dominant has always had the same orientation, but was somehow expressed (inward or outward) more than its orientation would imply (Pfff) (It would be Xi would've been more apparent from the outside, Xe would've been more apparent from the inside, whatever that means).
 

chickpea

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i was absolutely nothing like an ESFJ as a child. i've always been Fe-retarded and have acted like an NP my whole life.
 

Randomnity

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I have this theory:
- As a child the tertiary is second, the dominant is inverted (e -> i or i -> e).
- The secondary is provided for by the parents, in a way. (Secondary: 'The good parent')

I base this on three observations that people with the following types think they were / used to type themselves (in early youth) as:

ISTJ -> ESFP (forum member -> seen in retrospect)
INFJ -> ENTP (friend -> getting it from MBTI at the time)
INTJ -> ENFP (me -> seen in retrospect)

All three have the pattern:
- the tertiary is secondary (retaining the same orientation)
- the dominant is dominant but has inverted orientation (e/i) - It might be that somehow the situation as a child is conducive to expression of the dominant in its inverted orientation.

I would conceive of a more extreme "child type" as having the tertiary dominating and its orientation inversed (which would yield ENFJ for an INTJ for example).

For the rest it's based on individual recognitions with people, like for example seeing in an ENFJ's movements and posture behaviour I remember from myself from a long time ago.

For the rest, too, it's pretty free theorizing. As I saw the Tertiary Rising thread I thought I would refer to it in my thread title, as that thread is proposing something similar but the other way around (and probably with a little more practical value, or at least future-oriented).
I don't understand your theory at all. Where does it comes from? Perhaps the people you know were shy/repressed or something, and now they're more comfortable?

I was still very IxxP as a child. It's hard to type kids even when they're in front of you, let alone in retrospect, but I certainly do not remember having much Te or Fe at all, let alone having them as a dominant function. Nor was my tertiary (Ni) significant then. It would have been a mix of Ti and Fi with a backup of Ne and Se, if I had to guess.

The theory makes no sense to me. Why would it be so?
 

cascadeco

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^ Yeah, I agree. To the OP - three instances doesn't say a whole lot (i.e. one INFJ that you know who thought himself more ENTP as a child is simply one INFJ who thought that. Many/most wouldn't. Same with the other examples.)

I definitely wasn't anywhere close to being an ExxP as a child, and have never confused myself as one. I've always been a very solid IxxJ - although for a few toddler yrs (age 2-3?) I was apparently very friendly/engaging with others, but I don't remember any of that.

Now I DO think the tertiary can rise and be stronger than the aux, such that an uber-extroverted ExxP won't use much aux or a really introverted IxxJ will lean heavily on both introverted functions, but reversing the primary -- as a baseline personality -- doesn't make sense to me. Not as a general theory, at least. With certain individuals? Sure. But there can be various sorts of development of different sorts, too - it's a reason mbti is an imperfect system/theory.
 

sculpting

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As a child I was very INFJish-but of a shadowy version. I used Ni to detach from the world and perhaps wierd Fe to build a protective wall. At about thirteen I found Te and used it from then on out. But this was likely because my childhood was very unstable.

In my kids...

My 15 yo ENFP son was exceptionally Ne when small. When contained in any way he would have severe emotional outbursts and become rageful, throwing things and screaming. He was kicked out of four daycare centers and then placed on ritalin in second grade to help him calm down (ie rein in Ne perhaps?). At eleven suddenly he calmed down-he began to differentiate Fi and learned to think before acting. He is very sweet and calm now. So I'd say Ne with shadow Te used in an explosive way, followed by more mature NeFi as he ages. No REAL Te though as he is a total slob and very unorganized. :) I love him though.

My 3 yo INTJ is very interesting to observe. Strikingly introverted as an infant, withdrew from others disdainfully-Ni-ish-? He sought to structure things as early as 9 months in an OCD stacking of toys way-Te-ish? At about 18 months he suddenly became extremely affectionate to a few isolated people-Fi-ish? At about 2.5 he started doing this strange thing when really tired-he gets insanely hyperactive and VERY loud-inf Se-ish? It's funny as normally he is very reserved.

So to watch him now, you can see how he cycles through using Ni and Te with some days favoring the Te more. However Fi is a strong defensive mechanism and shows up as whininess or petulant cold shoulder behavior.

An INTJ from another forum actually mapped out two variants on cognitive functions-he noted that there may be a difference in the introvert vs extrovert order of development. He had realy beautiful ideas but they arent mine so I cant share them.
 

Llewellyn

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I don't understand your theory at all. Where does it comes from? Perhaps the people you know were shy/repressed or something, and now they're more comfortable?

I was still very IxxP as a child. It's hard to type kids even when they're in front of you, let alone in retrospect, but I certainly do not remember having much Te or Fe at all, let alone having them as a dominant function. Nor was my tertiary (Ni) significant then. It would have been a mix of Ti and Fi with a backup of Ne and Se, if I had to guess.

The theory makes no sense to me. Why would it be so?

Ok. You have the order the other way around though, the three examples point from now -> past (type).

I like to draw theories from little data. It can make for an elegant theory (Or so I see it). Consider it a theory for its own sake. With possible (and affirmed) application to reality. Partly it's there for who can make something of it.
 
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